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Old 09-10-2016, 11:25   #16
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Re: masthead tricolor or inhull/pulpits running lights

It is my understanding that sailing vessels do not REQUIRE masthead tri-colors, and if you have them you can not run both the masthead and deck lights.

For the various reasons stated above, if I ever add colored lights to my masthead, it will be red over green. Red Over Green designates a vessel under sail and does so much more definitely than masthead tri-color lights.

Additionally, masthead lights are often not seen by smaller craft when they are near to you, as they would have to be looking up to see them. Even when anchoring I will use a small light on my rear stay in addition to the masthead anchor light so those not paying attention can still see me.
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:04   #17
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Re: masthead tricolor or inhull/pulpits running lights

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Originally Posted by OS2Dude View Post
It is my understanding that sailing vessels do not REQUIRE masthead tri-colors, and if you have them you can not run both the masthead and deck lights.

For the various reasons stated above, if I ever add colored lights to my masthead, it will be red over green. Red Over Green designates a vessel under sail and does so much more definitely than masthead tri-color lights.

Additionally, masthead lights are often not seen by smaller craft when they are near to you, as they would have to be looking up to see them. Even when anchoring I will use a small light on my rear stay in addition to the masthead anchor light so those not paying attention can still see me.
A masthead tricolour light indicates a sailing vessel <20m.Nothing more nothing less. The combination you describe is probably the best available. Side lights, stern light and red over green up the mast.

Dave
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:33   #18
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

In crowded anchorages or harbors the masthead light can easily be missed, but out at sea I think they can be seen much farther than hull or pulpit lights. Leaving Bermuda in the late afternoon one year , there were 6 or 7 sailboats going out of the harbor. At dusk I could still see most of them, but a 1/2 hour later the only one I could still see was the one that I knew was running a masthead tricolor. It was a real reminder of how poor yacht navigation lights are. I will always have both a masthead tricolor and pulpit lights and a steaming light all on separate switches. New LEDs will be much better. In the real world a bright white all around masthead light will be seen much farther than any legal running light. Away from the coast I think that being seen is more important than being legal. A 24 knot container ship that can see you several miles farther at night has less chance of running you down than if you are concerned with legal pulpit height running lights. Knowing earlier that there is a vessel out there (a 6 knot sailboat?) is more important than the actual direction of the slow boat. Is it legal? Hell no, but it just might be better than being DEAD RIGHT. Of course this is just my opinion and many will disagree. My 2 cents worth. ____Grant.
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Old 09-10-2016, 14:47   #19
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

I restored a 1981 built race boat 2 years ago and also upgraded all the wiring.

I thought about the 2 sets of nav lights for all the reasons mentioned.

In the end, I went to IRPCS and there is no requirement for yachts to have 2 sets of nav lights.

The tri colour is all that is required for yachts, according to IRPCS.

Thats all I have and race offshore all year round, up and down the east coast of Australia. In Sydney Harbour of a night, I have never had any problems with no one seeing me.

If the tri colour goes out or I lose the mast, I would simply put on my emergency nav lights that every yacht should have anyway.

Just my two bobs worth from the rule book and experience.
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Old 09-10-2016, 15:17   #20
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

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Originally Posted by spmk View Post
I restored a 1981 built race boat 2 years ago and also upgraded all the wiring.

I thought about the 2 sets of nav lights for all the reasons mentioned.

In the end, I went to IRPCS and there is no requirement for yachts to have 2 sets of nav lights.

The tri colour is all that is required for yachts, according to IRPCS.

Thats all I have and race offshore all year round, up and down the east coast of Australia. In Sydney Harbour of a night, I have never had any problems with no one seeing me.

If the tri colour goes out or I lose the mast, I would simply put on my emergency nav lights that every yacht should have anyway.

Just my two bobs worth from the rule book and experience.
So, you are saying that you NEVER motor around in the dark? If you do, the tricouour is not correct lighting.

Jim
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Old 09-10-2016, 15:40   #21
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

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So, you are saying that you NEVER motor around in the dark? If you do, the tricouour is not correct lighting.

Jim
Absolutely correct!
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Old 09-10-2016, 15:43   #22
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

I'd also worry more about transmitting AIS than where the lights are located. Now that ships depend so much on AIS, I wouldn't want to be in crowded waters at night without an AIS transponder. Just too risky.

And I think the light regulations for sailboats are outdated - from the era when sailboats didn't have enough battery to be really visible. When any boats are within 5 miles, I now leave the engine on slow and display the LED deck level lights with my 3NM LED steaming light. Hard to overlook a very bright white above a red/green. After dark, I also use the AIS information to make VHF voice contact with any ship with a projected CPA of two miles or less.
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Old 09-10-2016, 16:06   #23
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

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Originally Posted by spmk View Post
In the end, I went to IRPCS and there is no requirement for yachts to have 2 sets of nav lights.

The tri colour is all that is required for yachts, according to IRPCS.
Just to clarify. Colregs do not mention "yachts" - just power-driven vessels and sailing vessels. It's not a design issue at all, it's solely based on how the vessel is being driven at the time.

(b). The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c). The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

If you are motoring in or out of a marina, motoring while anchoring or picking up a mooring, motor sailing, or any other time when you engine is running and in gear, you are NOT a sailing vessel and are required to show the lights of a power-driven vessel - a tricolour is not permitted.
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Old 09-10-2016, 16:40   #24
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

Just finished an Rya course where this was studied and ther specific rules. Assuming under 20 meters
Trilight.= Sailing vessel
Deck level P and S lights with stern light = sailing vessel
Trilight with deck level running lights. Not recognized
Mast head strobe. Not recognized

Tri light with steaming light. Not recognized

P and S lights, stern light. And steaming light
Vessel under power
I use the phrase "not recognized" to mean not technically correct, there will be lots of discussion on what you might choose to use, but it should start with what is legal.
BTW can stacked red and Green be used on any lenght vessel? I can't remember
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Old 09-10-2016, 16:57   #25
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

No length restriction on red over green. But they can only be used with sidelights, not with a tricolour.
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Old 09-10-2016, 17:01   #26
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

The main reason for using a tricolor has not been mentioned -- preserving your night vision.

Deck-level nav lights kill it.

But as others have said -- you have no choice about having deck level ones. You must have them, as no other are allowed together with a steaming light when motoring.

I use deck level nav lights in inshore waters, and tricolor offshore.
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Old 09-10-2016, 17:04   #27
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

I've considered use of red over green, but the practicalities of the installation get a bit daunting. Seems that it would be necessary to have two pairs of lamps, one on each side of the mast, to achieve 360 degree visibility, and that gets both expensive and cumbersome.

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Old 09-10-2016, 17:15   #28
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Re: masthead tricolor or inhull/pulpits running lights

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post

If I was concerned about visibility... I would use both... the point being to be seen.
Not a good idea at all.
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Old 09-10-2016, 17:15   #29
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by spmk View Post
I restored a 1981 built race boat 2 years ago and also upgraded all the wiring.

I thought about the 2 sets of nav lights for all the reasons mentioned.

In the end, I went to IRPCS and there is no requirement for yachts to have 2 sets of nav lights.

The tri colour is all that is required for yachts, according to IRPCS.

Thats all I have and race offshore all year round, up and down the east coast of Australia. In Sydney Harbour of a night, I have never had any problems with no one seeing me.

If the tri colour goes out or I lose the mast, I would simply put on my emergency nav lights that every yacht should have anyway.

Just my two bobs worth from the rule book and experience.
What you say is true only if you do not have any motor in your yacht.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:04   #30
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Re: Masthead Tricolor or Inhull/Pulpits Running Lights

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I've considered use of red over green, but the practicalities of the installation get a bit daunting. Seems that it would be necessary to have two pairs of lamps, one on each side of the mast, to achieve 360 degree visibility, and that gets both expensive and cumbersome.

Jim
Hi Jim a mate of mine (Wayne on Ambler) came up with a cunning plan of wrapping a green and red LED strip around the mast. 1 meter apart. Sounds like a smart way to do it.



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