Lost at Sea from S/V 'Triple Stars'

[Don Lucas]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Anyone know if cotton wool is waterproof? and how I can buy in bulk - to wrap boat and me in.........

Trade the goat in for a sheep. Free wool and "company" for your lonely nights

PS - this was my post number 3000, glad I used it to do something of quality!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

Well that's a fair variation of what I was saying...

I like the quote.. "War is where old men send young men to die..." or some suchlike.
You really do wonder if the older politicians would decide to go to war if they had to go out and lead the charge themselves.

I think I may have just discovered the secret to world peace... Pollies First.
And right on christmas too

Always said we shoulda stuck Bush and Saddam in the ring,,, best man wins..
David and Goliath.... ROFL...
But... back on topic...
Hogan... bet you did not plan on a single broken bone/accident in your life...
Your on a hiding to nothing mate...
Theory is one thing... Reality sucks...

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Piney

There really seems to be WAY too many posts on this forum about folks being afraid of the sea. If you even have the slightest fear of going to sea, then it is not for you. Stay on land. The sea WILL kill you.

It really has nothing to do with how much saftey equipment you can purchase or if you have a million dollars worth of the best marine electronics.
Common sense can not be purchased or taught.

Its an ancient formula.

Landlubbers + sea = death

I disagree. What we do is inherently dangerous and we forget that at our peril. Sometimes fear is a wake-up call to do things better.

[Mr B]

I dont know about any where else,

But to get your Victorian boat licence,
MOB is a part of the training and you must throw out a life ring and then go and get it back onboard,

Its taught in the day time, But it will help you if you are ever in this situation,

[Hogan]

MOB Drills are a good start, and we do them on my boat regularly - at night and durring moderate conditions.

But 30 foot waves 100s of miles out?

Just turning a boat around is very dangerous and difficult, especially if you are headed downwind.

Then there is the whole victim recovery problem:

Again, helmets would be a huge assest for both victim and rescuer:

Note: The SAR pros wear helmets, and with good reason:

Say you manage to reach your victim and it's force 8, at night.

They are concious, but have no helmet.

What are the head injury risks associated with manuvering a 20,000lb vessle next to them in a seaway?

What are the risks to the rescuer?

One reason Kayakers can survive in whitewater full of rocks - in conditions that make waves from a hurricane at sea look tame, is because of those helmets.

Thier vests prevent thoratic trauma (broken ribs, punctured lungs, damaged organs) by cushioning impacts.

Look on YouTube at some of the VOLVO and BOC Southern Ocean footage:

Watch as those poor crew struggle with huge boarding seas and fouled sails.

Note how harnesses and tethers are used, and note how they'd be safer still with helmets.

Very few trauma centers staffed with brain surgeons in the southern ocean.

I'm not saying you must be clipped in PFDed up and helmeted at all times -
But setting a wind speed and sea-state trigger for thier use seems prudent to me.

It's fairly easy to find and recover a MOB in flat water durring the day.

But at night or in rough weather.....

So, 30 knots plus, and me and my crew will don kayaking vests and helmets.

We will clip in with climbing harnesses with short double tethers that prevent going overboard.

And we will have fun while we are at it, instead of wondering if the next wave has our name on it.

[Ex-Calif]

So in summary. Clip in and wear a helmet.

Lot of posts for a pretty simple comment.

Do what ever you personally like and make any rules you like for your boat. Just don't mandate anything on me.

Fat people and sailing? If you wanna be 5'8" @ 350 lbs and want to go cruising I suggest you stick to royal carribean. They have good buffets, I hear.

We are in a generation of me, me, me. All access all the time. I weight 350 and I want to jam my lard ass into an economy seat. If Dan goes sailng, I should have the right to go sailing, and oh, it should be zero risk. And if I can't get my lard ass on a boat after falling over and I drown let's apply a bunch of useless regulations on Dan, who doesn't weigh 350, can climb back on the boat and is smart enough to duck when the boom crosses.

Oh, and if some day I forget to duck and get knocked overboard, and my trained crew can't rescue me and I die. Have a grreat wake, remember I lived a grreat life and move on. It is not a call for stricter boating freakin' standards and lawsuits.

And for the fattie in the original post? If you can't help me and my crew you will not be on my boat. And if you are a liability you are not on my boat. And to do her a favor you should have told her she had no business being near a boat until she lost a couple hundred pounds.

I speak from experience. I was too fat. I ain't a fattie but my racing skipper sat me down, said lose 10kg minimum or get flicked. I lost ten kg. I didn't blame my genes, thyroid, big bones or any otheer damn thing. I lost 10kg becuase he was right. I was a less effective crewman.

Rant off...

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

And for the fattie in the original post? If you can't help me and my crew you will not be on my boat. And if you are a liability you are not on my boat. And to do her a favor you should have told her she had no business being near a boat until she lost a couple hundred pounds.

As to the "fattie" in the first post, she was a human being not a "fattie", and as far as I know she went to sea in her own vessel and lost her life. We don't know whether it had anything to do with being over weight or not but it certainly had nothing to do with being a liability on your boat.

If someone has a heart attack on board did they have no business being on a boat? If you have one should you have known better? What sort of names should we come up with to demean someone in that situation?

There are those who think none of us should be out there risking the wrath of the ocean. There really is no end to this and it isn't my intention to jump all over you but I see no reason to insult people for their personal choices.

[kaimusailing]

Hulk Hogan!
MOB has little meaning to a singlehander, except it is the absolute worst thing that can happen. Like a mountainclimber, life depends on being tethered to the boat, unless the boat sinks. The main thing is to follow strict rules if you are singlehanding, but also why not extend those rules to those who crew for you? There should be a jackline available when exiting the cabin to go on watch and it should allow the on watch sailor to go forward to the foredeck and manage any of the usual areas on deck. On my boat, which is a catamaran, the jackline runs from the stern forward to one side of the staysail stay and then around the head stay and back to the other side of the staysail stay and back to the other stern. I can go all the way forward and aft on either side of the boat. I have actually never used the jackstay at sea. I've been through gales and storms and the most dangerous time is when ice is forming on deck. Other catamaran sailors have talked about breaking seas on deck forward washing aft on the bridgedeck and in that case, being clipped in would be a lifesaver.
I've had hatches ripped off and impossible to retrieve in bad weather. In that case I put the dinghy over the open hatch upside down and had a lot of bailing to do. I've tried several MOB drills and the catamaran is much more difficult to maneuver than a monohull, especially in high winds. I think it's harder to fall off a catamaran than a monohull.
I find these stories of sailors falling off and gone missing very disturbing. There are boats sailing into Hilo, Hawaii on autopilot with no one on board. They get a couple every year. I suppose on the 2000 mile voyage from California they must have fallen in near the end of the voyage, almost at their goal. Even worse is the springtime demise of skippers who fall over while relieving themselves. Even with crew aboard to come back to pick them up, hypothermia kills them in just a few minutes.
Not that it's Christmas Eve here and we've got to go on and enjoy life and sailing. Just be careful.

[boatman61]

Hogan.. think I'll step outa this thread...
You'd freak sailing with me... but many years of habits are hard to change..
Its like smoking.. only more fun..^5

Oh...an excerpt from Jesters post... this is the sinking I've mentioned near Porto... may be informative to the untested/tried out there...
Winds were 40-70kts+ and 7-8 metre seas that week...

I'm sixty myself and imagine it must have been an epic struggle to get into a liferaft from a sinking boat in a gale. If some water gets inside and you get thrown around until unconscious, then I guess that you'd end up drowning.

Fair play to Alan, though. Argus sank. He didn't take to the liferaft just because he thought his boat might sink, as we've heard so often. The last thing he did was an act of true seamanship, which surely must also have been of value to his family in gaining closure.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by hummingway

As to the "fattie" in the first post, she was a human being not a "fattie", and as far as I know she went to sea in her own vessel and lost her life. We don't know whether it had anything to do with being over weight or not but it certainly had nothing to do with being a liability on your boat.

I thought the fattie comment was about the woman who fell off the dock (and was rescued).


I think the secret is not to sail with anyone you don't mind losing.......

- There are / have been some people I would unquestionably risk life and limb for.

- For most I would do whatever was prudent without seriously endangering my vessel or self.

- For some I wouldn't get too bothered about them going MOB ......but for most of those prevention is the cure - mainly about not having onboard in the first place .

[danielamartindm]

The sea is about freedom, and part of freedom is risk. If the sea could somehow be made risk-free, it would cease to be the wild and beautiful place that we feel honored to share. Cracks about the victim's weight or inebriation are beneath the traditions we hold dear. There is a dignity in a death at sea, even for those of us who find it on watch while taking a whiz off the bow on a stormy night. The very act of going to sea is an act of bravery in the face of our certain mortality. We mourn the loss of any sailor.

[Capt Phil]

This is turning in to the 'Kavorkian Kruise' thread! Capt Phil

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Hogan

....

Woah. Dude. You burned a freakin' laptop and other noxious crap from the trunk of your Mercedes in a fire-pit at a local beach - blowing a toxic black plume toward town????

Really?



I would have been more impressed had you torched the Merc.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by hummingway

As to the "fattie" in the first post, she was a human being not a "fattie", and as far as I know she went to sea in her own vessel and lost her life. We don't know whether it had anything to do with being over weight or not but it certainly had nothing to do with being a liability on your boat.

If someone has a heart attack on board did they have no business being on a boat? If you have one should you have known better? What sort of names should we come up with to demean someone in that situation?

There are those who think none of us should be out there risking the wrath of the ocean. There really is no end to this and it isn't my intention to jump all over you but I see no reason to insult people for their personal choices.

Hummingway - sorry for the miscommunication. I was talking about the drunk person that Hogan saved with coast guard assistance. Fat, drunk and in the water at the dock. Darwin lives...

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

Here in Australia you now have to wear a life jacket if you're alone in a tender even. So if I go ashore to pick a couple of people up to bring them to the boat, technically, I have to wear a L J going in, and can then take if off for the trip back to the boat.

Hadn't heard of that one. In what state(s) does this apply?

AussieGeoff