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Old 24-07-2012, 18:56   #166
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
EXACTLY why he should have had a good mooring, and EXACTLY why he is actually responsible for his predicament.

And, we're not talking about hurricanes here. This area hasn't been directly hit by a hurricane (even a Cat I) in something like 78 years. However, we get either a brush by a hurricane (Francis, Jean, in 2004, another TS in 2005, and Debby recently as examples) quite frequently. Anyone who lives in Boca Ciega Bay on a boat and does NOT have a good, well maintained mooring, is acting in a reckless manor. BC Bay is shallow and the waves can get big enough to make big problems, especially for big boats that can do a lot of damage to other boats and other things.

I didn't mention "hurricane" in any of my posts. Keep in mind that Debby was a very weak TS and we did not take a direct hit from her. That was further north of here.

So why weren't they charging him $93 a day all along?
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Old 24-07-2012, 18:59   #167
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
So why weren't they charging him $93 a day all along?

"
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Originally Posted by Rakuflames
EXACTLY why he should have had a good mooring, and EXACTLY why he is actually responsible for his predicament.

And, we're not talking about hurricanes here. This area hasn't been directly hit by a hurricane (even a Cat I) in something like 78 years. However, we get either a brush by a hurricane (Francis, Jean, in 2004, another TS in 2005, and Debby recently as examples) quite frequently. Anyone who lives in Boca Ciega Bay on a boat and does NOT have a good, well maintained mooring, is acting in a reckless manor. BC Bay is shallow and the waves can get big enough to make big problems, especially for big boats that can do a lot of damage to other boats and other things.

I didn't mention "hurricane" in any of my posts. Keep in mind that Debby was a very weak TS and we did not take a direct hit from her. That was further north of here.



So why weren't they charging him $93 a day all along?


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Old 24-07-2012, 19:08   #168
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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So why weren't they charging him $93 a day all along?
I reread your posts and saw what you were referring to.

They didn't fine him for being anchored off the beach because that is legal. They fined him not immediately but after at least several days had passed, and only because of its location.

They did not have legal authority before to go out to his boat and determine that his anchoring was inadequate. It's possible that his anchoring WAS adequate. He might have replaced his rode since the other person here saw his boat.

But NOW his boat is aground on the beach (yes) and is potentially a serious navigation hazard. It's an "attractive nuisance." It's a very big boat stuck on a very small public beach. They have the right to insist that it be moved.

It's all unfortunate, but it was also preventable. If he had been an out-of-towner, a transient boat, I would not say that. One can't realistically lug a mooring around and put it down everywhere one stops. But there's no mystery to either the weather here or its effects on boats in Boca Ciega Bay.
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:10   #169
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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So why weren't they charging him $93 a day all along?
Could it be that before they were just trying to help him, along with a lot of others?
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:10   #170
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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I reread your posts and saw what you were referring to.

They didn't fine him for being anchored off the beach because that is legal. They fined him not immediately but after at least several days had passed, and only because of its location.

They did not have legal authority before to go out to his boat and determine that his anchoring was inadequate. It's possible that his anchoring WAS adequate. He might have replaced his rode since the other person here saw his boat.

But NOW his boat is aground on the beach (yes) and is potentially a serious navigation hazard. It's an "attractive nuisance." It's a very big boat stuck on a very small public beach. They have the right to insist that it be moved.

It's all unfortunate, but it was also preventable. If he had been an out-of-towner, a transient boat, I would not say that. One can't realistically lug a mooring around and put it down everywhere one stops. But there's no mystery to either the weather here or its effects on boats in Boca Ciega Bay.
I understand, but I'd have to ask the city, Who's navigating in 3' of water off the beach?
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:13   #171
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

After the outrageous rape by the bankers and stock promoters and the excesses of people like Bernie Madof, how the hell can anyone blindly defend Capitalism??
But i digress,,the issue should be do we measure a persons worth before we help them??? No..i don't think so,,and if you do,,your not worthy of cleaning my boot heals (not directed at anyone in particular) maybe the guy will become a hazard to navigation again,,maybe he's a shyster (i have donated money i couldn't afford to his cause) but these things are for another day.
I say he should be helped back to the sea aboard his boat, and an anchor and rode should be donated with suitable tackle to enable the boat to at least stand some chance of surviving the next blow.

Is it that hard???? really???? or does that soap box your standing on give you a stiffy?????? C'mon,,,lets git er dun!!! and then move on to the next poor sucker who needs a break!!!
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:15   #172
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I understand, but I'd have to ask the city, Who's navigating in 3' of water off the beach?

"
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
I reread your posts and saw what you were referring to.

They didn't fine him for being anchored off the beach because that is legal. They fined him not immediately but after at least several days had passed, and only because of its location.

They did not have legal authority before to go out to his boat and determine that his anchoring was inadequate. It's possible that his anchoring WAS adequate. He might have replaced his rode since the other person here saw his boat.

But NOW his boat is aground on the beach (yes) and is potentially a serious navigation hazard. It's an "attractive nuisance." It's a very big boat stuck on a very small public beach. They have the right to insist that it be moved.

It's all unfortunate, but it was also preventable. If he had been an out-of-towner, a transient boat, I would not say that. One can't realistically lug a mooring around and put it down everywhere one stops. But there's no mystery to either the weather here or its effects on boats in Boca Ciega Bay.

I understand, but I'd have to ask the city, Who's navigating in 3' of water off the beach? "


Sorry. I really didn't "do the math" in my post and lay it all out.

3' of water plus 5' of tide and storm surge makes 8' of water, enough to float that boat -- into the pier. In addition, because the beach is so flat and shallow, it is enough water to float it into the pavilion, or the bath house, or even properties across the street. As I say, with Debby and a 2' storm surge, water went five blocks into town up the streets.

A lesser storm could break it up, or break items (like the washing machine) off the deck, which then could become a problem. Maybe not, but maybe so ...

The picture was misleading. The only reason that boat was 20 yards from "shore" was because Debby had pushed the shore across the street.
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:26   #173
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
"
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
I reread your posts and saw what you were referring to.

They didn't fine him for being anchored off the beach because that is legal. They fined him not immediately but after at least several days had passed, and only because of its location.

They did not have legal authority before to go out to his boat and determine that his anchoring was inadequate. It's possible that his anchoring WAS adequate. He might have replaced his rode since the other person here saw his boat.

But NOW his boat is aground on the beach (yes) and is potentially a serious navigation hazard. It's an "attractive nuisance." It's a very big boat stuck on a very small public beach. They have the right to insist that it be moved.

It's all unfortunate, but it was also preventable. If he had been an out-of-towner, a transient boat, I would not say that. One can't realistically lug a mooring around and put it down everywhere one stops. But there's no mystery to either the weather here or its effects on boats in Boca Ciega Bay.

I understand, but I'd have to ask the city, Who's navigating in 3' of water off the beach? "


Sorry. I really didn't "do the math" in my post and lay it all out.

3' of water plus 5' of tide and storm surge makes 8' of water, enough to float that boat -- into the pier. In addition, because the beach is so flat and shallow, it is enough water to float it into the pavilion, or the bath house, or even properties across the street. As I say, with Debby and a 2' storm surge, water went five blocks into town up the streets.

A lesser storm could break it up, or break items (like the washing machine) off the deck, which then could become a problem. Maybe not, but maybe so ...

The picture was misleading. The only reason that boat was 20 yards from "shore" was because Debby had pushed the shore across the street.

Wouldn't the help of a few donated anchors prevent this from happening? And subsequently, lay the boat on it's side after the tide goes out (with a bit of effort in adverse conditions), resulting in getting it afloat after the (not so terrible) storm surge?

Again, not arguing with you Ruku, I appreciate your opinion. And I believe I do actually understand it.... I just think there's more than one way to get through this without all the money and politics involved.

Having been in dozens of hurricanes, I know what even a small storm surge can do. And I'm confident a few properly set anchors and one or two persons manning the winches could actually get this boat afloat again during a major storm (and yes, I've been on boats in major storms before too).
This would obviously involve volunteers and donated gear....

But that's all "what if" anyway. What if, doesn't really matter right now. Right now, the same thing could be accomplished with the power of winches, people, and time. All of which are apperently in short supply.
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Old 24-07-2012, 19:38   #174
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Wouldn't the help of a few donated anchors prevent this from happening? And subsequently, lay the boat on it's side after the tide goes out (with a bit of effort in adverse conditions), resulting in getting it afloat after the (not so terrible) storm surge?

Again, not arguing with you Ruku, I appreciate your opinion. And I believe I do actually understand it.... I just think there's more than one way to get through this without all the money and politics involved.

Having been in dozens of hurricanes, I know what even a small storm surge can do. And I'm confident a few properly set anchors and one or two persons manning the winches could actually get this boat afloat again during a major storm (and yes, I've been on boats in major storms before too).
This would obviously involve volunteers and donated gear....

But that's all "what if" anyway. What if, doesn't really matter right now. Right now, the same thing could be accomplished with the power of winches, people, and time.

But you can't COUNT on that storm coming along. What have I mentioned? 2004, 2005, this year, a bad storm a year ago last spring (completely unpredictable). There was also Erin in 2007 -- not 2005, as I was remembering. In 2005 they were all over the place, but not the Tampa Bay area.

In addition, you have to find skilled sailors *who are willing to get on that boat during a storm at considerable risk to themselves.* We have to assume that they don't need to be tending to their own boats, or the boats of friends. That's what I would do. I would do everything I could to make sure my boat was secure, and then I would be available to help friends with theirs.

If one of those storms DOES come in, I hope the boat is already off -- unfortunately, one way or another. I have friends with boats out in that bay. I like Gulfport and don't want it beaten up by a big boat that wasn't properly secured.

And ... what if he does manage to get it back out again? He still won't have a mooring, and with $1.25 to his name, he doesn't have the money for four properly rigged anchors (three didn't do the job in a very mild storm).
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Old 24-07-2012, 21:05   #175
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Old 24-07-2012, 21:11   #176
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

time to unsubscribe from this thread,,,, 12 pages of WHAT, give it a rest already,,,time to close it
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Old 24-07-2012, 21:16   #177
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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After the outrageous rape by the bankers and stock promoters and the excesses of people like Bernie Madof, how the hell can anyone blindly defend Capitalism??
But i digress,,the issue should be do we measure a persons worth before we help them??? No..i don't think so,,and if you do,,your not worthy of cleaning my boot heals (not directed at anyone in particular) maybe the guy will become a hazard to navigation again,,maybe he's a shyster (i have donated money i couldn't afford to his cause) but these things are for another day.
I say he should be helped back to the sea aboard his boat, and an anchor and rode should be donated with suitable tackle to enable the boat to at least stand some chance of surviving the next blow.

Is it that hard???? really???? or does that soap box your standing on give you a stiffy?????? C'mon,,,lets git er dun!!! and then move on to the next poor sucker who needs a break!!!

OHHHH you don't like being disagreed with, do you. There probably isn't a boater in the area who wants him at anchor again, so who is going to give him an anchor? I've suggested here several times that people help make him a mooring. BTW I'm female, and the only "stiffy" I have is the stick on my boat.

Yeah, I defend capitalism when compared to anything else. I don't require perfection in order to be free. It's part of what makes us free. I don't throw the baby out with the bath water (or the crooked bankers).

Sorry if you don't like my opinions. If you don't, bite me -- and then put me on filter (big cheesy, feminine smile).
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Old 24-07-2012, 21:41   #178
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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In fact the city of Gulfport has helped this man tremendously, because their decisions have made it a media event here. I doubt there's a sailor in the area who doesn't know about it, and LOTS of people have coalesced and are continuing to do so.

Newspaper stories do not tell every little detail about a story, especially one like this that is changing regarding help every day.
I am not surprised and expected that there would be assistance of some kind. Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this. Hopefully his situation is resolved by the time I get down there in the second week of August.

Please continue letting us know any updates.
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Old 24-07-2012, 21:49   #179
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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Amber and gold diggers use gas engine driven pumps that suck water at one end and jet it out of the other end - this way the sand could be softened and the boat set free. This would not be expensive - hire the pumps and buy some gas.

If deep water is not too far off and if there is enough tidal range, perhaps she could be heeled over and dragged to the deep water?

I know I may be talking nonsense (and I do apologize for so doing), but I just watch the video for the nth time and it looks so doable.

b.
That is what I think too. Even using air compressors with pointed metal tubes that could be pushed into the sand to turn it into silt would move the sand. Once it is over on it's side, tie some air bags to the keel and deck to float it. Or assist in dragging it.

You just wouldn't want to be under the boat when it starts to tip.
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Old 24-07-2012, 21:59   #180
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Re: Cruisers yacht stuck on Gulfport beach in 4 feet of sand

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time to unsubscribe from this thread,,,, 12 pages of WHAT, give it a rest already,,,time to close it

...amen brother these two guys need to get a room!
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