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Old 15-02-2016, 13:13   #2506
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Didn't you know that MMGW causes everything including lower temperatures?

Here's a list that gave up trying to keep pace with the alarmism back in 2012. warmlist
That list is unbelievable! I had no idea that MMGW was causing brothels to struggle and women to cheat while on vacation, but they're both on the list!

[QUOTE=sailorboy1;2046488]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Didn't you know that MMGW causes everything including lower temperatures?
/QUOTE]

so you saying it's not the whole planet getting warm, just that some areas are stealing it from somewhere else, got it
Not only that, but Antarctic ice will both expand & shrink, beer will get better & worse, winds will be both weaker & stronger, the Earth will spin faster & slow down, there will be aliens from Antarctica, and -- worst of all -- MMGW will create a fashion disaster. Hey, I'm not making this up -- it's all on the list!
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:21   #2507
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Originally Posted by Kenomac:
Not true. When the thread began, it was 60 degrees F here in New England. Today started out a -8 degrees F, yesterday with the wind chill factored in it was -40 F. I consider that a significant change.
It would have been a good weekend for picking cherries.

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
You mean you haven't gotten used to Keno's sense of humor yet, CS? A little entertainment here, a little sarcasm there, and maybe just a bit of instigation to keep things light-hearted.
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:26   #2508
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by ProShotPhoto View Post
strangley idiots think anything any other idiot writes, is right uf it supports thier ignirant view.

yes the world changes over time, and many alternative fuel or energy sources will be investigated.

funny that uber is mentioned as the reason we have taxi regulations is because we had unregulated ubers that needed regulations to control all the bad things the unregulated busibess created.

too bad the writer has such a short sited view of history
Haven't encountered any idiots on this thread, just some viewpoints from some that others think may be idiotic. And vice-versa . . . .
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:43   #2509
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Originally Posted by StuM:
Ho Hum! They're back cutting and pasting from Skeptical Science again.

[QUOTE=SailOar;2046703]That's an ad hominem attack, and therefore neither useful nor becoming.

More of an attack on the Skeptical Science website than ad hominem, no?

Originally Posted by StuM:
I could produce counter evidence to dispute just about every one of those 10 points and the unsubstantiated claims in that matrix, but I really can't be bothered when it is just another Junk Sceptical Science piece.

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Please do make your counter-arguments. It's not evident to me where the flaws in their arguments are.
Stu's counter-arguments have been most instructive, so I too hope he responds. Hopefully you've had a chance to review what he's already contributed, however, along with the extensive posts from Jack, Gord, and many others who hold mostly opposing views. Personally, I find carefully reviewing opposing viewpoints most helpful in either confirming or dispelling my own. At the very least, it's almost always educational. Unfortunately, the Skeptical Science website seems so partisan to me that, rightly or wrongly, I tend to discount its credibility.
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Old 15-02-2016, 14:03   #2510
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Almost 2500 posts from climate deniers and climate alarmist yet nothing has changed...hmmm.
Maybe, if what you mean is whether any minds have been changed on the basic issues. Hard to really know, and even harder to predict which way some of those minds may yet change as the science and new technologies evolve. I did not start reading the thread with a lot of background on the issues, and so have found the discussion/debate quite educational, whether from Jack's voluminous, encyclopedic postings, or Stu and others with science-related backgrounds who are able to make at least some of it understandable.

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No wonder people are fleeing CF for other sites; every thread eventually turns into an argument.
This thread was doomed from the first page, but the CF model obviously is based on post numbers and clicks, not useful content.
So you're suggesting the thread discussions on other sailing forums do not devolve into arguments, even though they tend to have less moderation?? Besides, the fact that this seems to be one of the few CC threads that have not (yet?) been closed down, and has also lasted so long, suggests that there's more "debate" than "argument."
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Old 15-02-2016, 14:18   #2511
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
No wonder people are fleeing CF for other sites; every thread eventually turns into an argument.
This thread was doomed from the first page, but the CF model obviously is based on post numbers and clicks, not useful content.

Actually, I disagree also. The number of posts and sometimes strong opposing views in this thread proves healthy and strong debate doesn't have to turn into a childish name calling fest. Can't say same for some other infamous threads!

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Old 15-02-2016, 14:39   #2512
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

[QUOTE=sailorboy1;2046488]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Didn't you know that MMGW causes everything including lower temperatures?
/QUOTE]

so you saying it's not the whole planet getting warm, just that some areas are stealing it from somewhere else, got it
Of course. And it is selective.
It may be colder where people live, but that doesn't matter because the data shows that it is always much warmer wherever there are no people.
Just ask GISS!

Just like how every place is warming faster than every other place. (Just ask Jack)
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Old 15-02-2016, 14:45   #2513
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
That's an ad hominem attack, and therefore neither useful nor becoming.



Please do make your counter-arguments. It's not evident to me where the flaws in their arguments are.
No, it's not an ad hominem, it's an ad SS attack. I will continue to say the same thing every time anyone posts an article from that site as evidence in support of their argument.

I've already made a lot of those counter arguments. Just read through the the thread to date.
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Old 15-02-2016, 14:52   #2514
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Nope. This thread has been two dozen bored sailors having a lighthearted discussion on a controversial topic whilst awaiting the Spring thaw. No name calling, in fact.... a few of us of different viewpoints plan on getting together sometime this year, possibly at the boat show">Annapolis boat show to discuss sailing stuff over a few beers.

Everyone will be invited. Friendships were forged and contacts made... Exactly what this forum is supposed to be all about.

Please try to extract the positive rather than assume the negative.
So true!

Just wish I could be there for the get together, I'm sure I'd enjoy the company of everyone on both sides of the discussion. I know I highly respect the opinions of "the opposition" on sailing/cruising issues.

We are all having fun here (at least I am). If this wide ranging discussion in the "Off Topic" section of CF upsets you, just ignore it.
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Old 15-02-2016, 15:43   #2515
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

What some probably don't realize is that the only ones maybe reading those long posts with the graphs etc. are the few active in the argument. And those, which ever side they are are on, probably aren't going to change their view based on anything they read in a sailing forum.

So I doubt any converts to either side have been gained for either side.

My guess is most reading the thread are looking at it as a car crash and are rubber necking it.
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Old 15-02-2016, 16:52   #2516
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What some probably don't realize is that the only ones maybe reading those long posts with the graphs etc. are the few active in the argument. And those, which ever side they are are on, probably aren't going to change their view based on anything they read in a sailing forum.

So I doubt any converts to either side have been gained for either side.

My guess is most reading the thread are looking at it as a car crash and are rubber necking it.
Probably all true. Just waitin' for the next pile-up.
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Old 15-02-2016, 17:06   #2517
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What some probably don't realize is that the only ones maybe reading those long posts with the graphs etc. are the few active in the argument. And those, which ever side they are are on, probably aren't going to change their view based on anything they read in a sailing forum.

So I doubt any converts to either side have been gained for either side.

My guess is most reading the thread are looking at it as a car crash and are rubber necking it.
Nah. Plenty of other threads for that.
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Old 16-02-2016, 01:48   #2518
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM:
Ho Hum! They're back cutting and pasting from Skeptical Science again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
That's an ad hominem attack, and therefore neither useful nor becoming.
More of an attack on the Skeptical Science website than ad hominem, no?
definition of AD HOMINEM:
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

While SkepticalScience.com is not a person (more a collective of persons), the fact that StuM criticized their arguments without providing any substantial rational I believe qualifies as an ad hominem reaction.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM:
I could produce counter evidence to dispute just about every one of those 10 points and the unsubstantiated claims in that matrix, but I really can't be bothered when it is just another Junk Sceptical Science piece.
Stu's counter-arguments have been most instructive, so I too hope he responds. Hopefully you've had a chance to review what he's already contributed, however, along with the extensive posts from Jack, Gord, and many others who hold mostly opposing views. Personally, I find carefully reviewing opposing viewpoints most helpful in either confirming or dispelling my own. At the very least, it's almost always educational. Unfortunately, the Skeptical Science website seems so partisan to me that, rightly or wrongly, I tend to discount its credibility.
I've popped in from time to time, but haven't followed the discussion. I agree with you that listening to carefully reasoned counterarguments can be very instructive.

I am surprised that you find Skeptical Science partisan -- in a bad way. Of course they strongly hold a position. However, if you read their website for the quote that I posted you will see that most every statement they make has a link to supporting documents from recognized scientific sources, such as NOAA, NASA, various universities and scientific papers. To a scientific layman, such as myself, all these references are an encouragement that what is being said is backed by good scientific analysis.
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Old 16-02-2016, 02:12   #2519
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
No, it's not an ad hominem, it's an ad SS attack. I will continue to say the same thing every time anyone posts an article from that site as evidence in support of their argument.

I've already made a lot of those counter arguments. Just read through the the thread to date.
I hope you can forgive me for not wanting to read all 162 posts you've made on this thread. As a shortcut to finding what you may have said on the topic of anthropocentric CO2 emissions I noted that points #4 and #5 concern carbon 12, carbon 13 and carbon 14. I searched this thread for your posts that contained either '12', '13', or '14', and didn't get any returns. Perhaps, as a start, you would be willing to critique those two points.

Again, here is the URL for my initial quote.
Climate Change Cluedo: Anthropogenic CO2
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Old 16-02-2016, 02:23   #2520
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

get the children out please, this could get messy.
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