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Old 27-08-2011, 11:58   #46
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

Do you have the names of the other officers present? Your lawyer might want to question them over the public street vs parking lot and vehicle re-entry issues. You don't need to answer that here.

The security camera suggestion is a good one as is the one to stop posting until the outcome of the case.

Good luck.
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:01   #47
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tori View Post
Well right now Joe is out on bail and the total fines are $613 plus my $100 in bond money plus there could be up to thirty days in jail time and if he is found guilty he will lose his security licenses and therefore his livelihood. Unless his charges are dropped prior he has to appear in court for an arraignment on 9/21. We are not inclined to pay these fines nor see him go to jail so if they do not drop the charges we will be going to court.
30 days of jail time if he is found guilty of what? This can't be for the expired registration? Was he actually charged for impersonating an officer? It's important to be certain of this. You can look up his name on the court docket to find out EXACTLY what charges he's to be appearing in court for. Here is the link to do so.

http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/

or

http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/

Quote:
Florida Statute 320.07 states your registration expires at midnight on the last day of registration or extended registration period. A vehicle may not be operated in the State of Florida unless the registration is renewed. If your registration is expired less than 6 months it is a noncriminal moving violation. If your registration is expired more than 6months and it is your first offense it is a noncriminal moving violation. If your registration is expired more than 6 months and it is not the first time you have been charged with this offense, it is a second degree misdemeanor, punishable up to 60 days in the county jail.
So expired registration can't be an arrestable criminal offense unless he's been cited for driving with an expiry over 6 months in the past. In fact, the Florida statutes clearly spell out the fines for delinquency. Furthur, if you go renew your tags within 10 days from this incident, then the penalty assessment is waived.

Quote:
A person who has been assessed a penalty pursuant to s. 316.545(2)(b) for failure to have a valid vehicle registration certificate is not subject to the delinquent fee authorized by this subsection if such person obtains a valid registration certificate within 10 working days after such penalty was assessed.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:01   #48
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by mtnsapo View Post
tori, for your sake, stop posting any details. IF the story is true how you have written it, an attroney is going to have a field day with the police dept. For your benefit, nothing sould be posted anymore, in fact i would have the moderators delete this thread till after you ahve your day in court. once you get an attroney he will recommend that same thing i do. good luck! And I would love to hear all the juicy details after your suit has been decided....I hate when this kind of **** happens...



Brian
Yea lawers have house payments too! please go and help the lawers
..they need more money..just ask one what you should do ,Im sure they would advise that you get a lawer! ....this case is already decided...spend some more money!I personally dont think lawers have time for field day,but you never know being that you guys were on the FBIs most wanted list and I think I saw you on one of those fugitive TV shows and I think....your going to be OK!
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:11   #49
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by Aussiesuede View Post
30 days of jail time if he is found guilty of what? This can't be for the expired registration? Was he actually charged for impersonating an officer? It's important to be certain of this. You can look up his name on the court docket to find out EXACTLY what charges he's to be appearing in court for. Here is the link to do so.

http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CivilDocket/

or

http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/



So expired registration can't be an arrestable criminal offense unless he's been cited for driving with an expiry over 6 months in the past. In fact, the Florida statutes clearly spell out the fines for delinquency. Furthur, if you go renew your tags within 10 days from this incident, then the penalty assessment is waived.



Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
Thank you .The voice of reason...you are wasting your time with videos and the like.. and if you think one cop is going to discredit another...it will never get that far...you are ok its over
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:12   #50
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

Lawyers do have house payments, it's a shame that them and Drs. are the worst about paying back their student loans.
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:21   #51
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
Thank you .The voice of reason...you are wasting your time with videos and the like.. and if you think one cop is going to discredit another...it will never get that far...you are ok its over
Not sure how you know so much about violating the law but if it gets to court there are two very good reasons to depose the other cops and question them under oath. Not point in disclosing strategy here except to say that the arresting officer will not get away with claiming it was a public street. He will be required to say where on the street the car was parked, vehicle direction, etc.

He will also be required to provide details of who entered the vehicle. How they entered. How long they where there. What they did inside, etc.

It's one thing to try and hide behind the Blue Line. It's quite another to have to provide, under oath, made up details of the incident if that's what they are. The witnesses will have to answer the questions the same way.

Doubt if a good lawyer would have any problem accomplishing this.
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:27   #52
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

As stated by others you will find sympathy here on the forum but rarely any good legal advise - although there may be some hidden in between the lines occasionally.
- - But that said, in my extensive experience of being hauled into local courts/magistrates, etc. for traffic violations, one thing was quite evident. You can rarely if ever win at the first level. Especially if it involves the ego of an officer.
- - If the lawyer cannot get the whole thing dismissed or thrown out or bargained down to a minor fine, prior to court then you have a very expensive decision to make. Pay the fines or fight it up the court system which is really expensive but usually results in dismissal or reversal of the lower court verdict. You cannot "re-try" the case at the appellate level, you can only contest the legal mistakes made at the first level which normally are quite numerous. This is where the "record" is all important.
- - The key to succeeding at the next level is building a "record" at the first level court of all the key legal elements needed to appeal and win at the second level. To do this, is tedious and usually invokes anger in the judge/magistrate at the first level who just wants to get you in and out quickly so he can move to the next case.
- - If your lawyer is good and savvy he will let the judge know that he intends to present and litigate up the system. This is risky but in a quite a few cases will result in the judge/magistrate dismissing the charges rather than spending a day or two on a "5-minute" case.
- - Bottom line, it will be expensive, (e.g., a $50 ticket cost me $5000 to successfully fight and win) and getting a competent and savvy lawyer is critical to the process.
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Old 27-08-2011, 12:33   #53
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

Oops, I forgot to provide the exact Florida Statute for failure to change both residence and mailing address (And the Florida statute requires BOTH to be provided within 10 days of change whether they are the same or different) Failure to change the address is a non moving civil violation, and is non arrestable.


Quote:
322.19 Change of address or name.—(1) Whenever any person, after applying for or receiving a driver’s license, changes his or her legal name, that person must within 10 days thereafter obtain a replacement license that reflects the change.
(2) Whenever any person, after applying for or receiving a driver’s license, changes the residence or mailing address in the application or license, the person must, within 10 calendar days, obtain a replacement license that reflects the change. A written request to the department must include the old and new addresses and the driver’s license number.
(3) A violation of this section is a nonmoving violation with a penalty as provided in s. 318.18(2).
(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, if a licensee established his or her identity for a driver’s license using an identification document authorized under s. 322.08(2)(c)7. or
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The fine for failure to change address is $30

Quote:
(2) Thirty dollars for all nonmoving traffic violations anda) For all violations of s. 322.19.
(b) For all violations of ss. 320.0605, 320.07(1), 322.065, and 322.15(1). Any person who is cited for a violation of s. 320.07(1) shall be charged a delinquent fee pursuant to s. 320.07(4).
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0318.18.html
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Old 27-08-2011, 13:31   #54
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I also cannot find that it is an arrestable offense but he us charged with a misdemeanor 2 which is a criminal traffic offense. According to the arrest records the exact offense is listed as failure to notify HSMV of an address change within 20 days. His paper work states he is out on bail for a misdemeanor criminal traffic offense.
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Old 27-08-2011, 14:05   #55
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
Not sure how you know so much about violating the law but if it gets to court there are two very good reasons to depose the other cops and question them under oath. Not point in disclosing strategy here except to say that the arresting officer will not get away with claiming it was a public street. He will be required to say where on the street the car was parked, vehicle direction, etc.

He will also be required to provide details of who entered the vehicle. How they entered. How long they where there. What they did inside, etc.

It's one thing to try and hide behind the Blue Line. It's quite another to have to provide, under oath, made up details of the incident if that's what they are. The witnesses will have to answer the questions the same way.

Doubt if a good lawyer would have any problem accomplishing this.
My "Experiance" comes from Obeying, not "Violating" the law and I simply belive that as someone else stated that the law doesnt put to much effort into 5 min. cases...Im trying to make these folks feel more comfortable about their situation,of course if you want to make them feel uncomfortable lets all tell them to spend their money and waste time and effort and now that I think about it, yea, I think they are doomed and that yea I hope I succeded in making them even more misarable than they already feel ,after all misery loves company and if they want they can get all the company they will ever need right here...I beg your pardon,I just hate the fact that this is something that you feel they have got to throw money at ...I think the police have made their point now its Joe & Tori's turn to make theirs..once again Good Luck DVC
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Old 27-08-2011, 14:13   #56
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Our other point is that the address on the registration and DL is Joes permanent home address and he owns that home. Sooo irregardless it was harassment and wrongful arrest.
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Old 27-08-2011, 14:31   #57
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by Tori View Post
I also cannot find that it is an arrestable offense but he us charged with a misdemeanor 2 which is a criminal traffic offense. According to the arrest records the exact offense is listed as failure to notify HSMV of an address change within 20 days. His paper work states he is out on bail for a misdemeanor criminal traffic offense.
After a bit of research, it seems that failure of the Florida Legislature to explicitly define what constitutes a "False Representation" on an application for either registration or license has resulted in certain jurisdictions issuing the violation your husband was cited with. Here is the section he was likely cited under:

320.02 Section 4

Quote:
(4) The owner of any motor vehicle registered in the state shall notify the department in writing of any change of address within 20 days of such change. The notification shall include the registration license plate number, the vehicle identification number (VIN) or title certificate number, year of vehicle make, and the owner’s full name.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine


Being that your tags were expired, I fail to see how you ever had the opportunity to make any false representation on an application for registration. Had you recently paid for new tags and listed a residence and mailing address which was different that what are your actual residence or mailing address, then a potential case could be made. But since your tags were expired, I'm guessing you never made an application where such potential for false representation could be made. Did the officer ask how long you'd been living on the boat? Hopefully for your sake, you did not answer more than a year. If so, they could technically say that you made a false representation when you last applied for registration. If you made no declaration as to how long you'd been living at the marina, then your expired tags should prove helpful since you'd not be in the position to have made ANY declarations since you'd not yet made application.

When I was poking around, it became apparent that this is a rather common underhanded ticket in a number of Florida Jurisdictions.

320.02 Section 6 prescribes:

Quote:
(6) Any person who registers his or her motor vehicle by means of false or fraudulent representations made in any application for registration is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Because the legislature hasn't explicitly defined what constitute "false or fraudulent Representation" these LEO's have taken it upon themselves to conclude that it is. With the frequency that it seems to happen, I'm amazed that the people of Florida haven't been raising holy hell to require the legislature to ad specific language as it's the pinnacle of absurdity to ascribe criminal consequence to something as simple as a change of address.

Sadly, you're going to be out of pocket for an attorney for something that's an honest mistake brought to light by some rather over zealous (and imho corrupt) law enforcement practice.


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Old 27-08-2011, 14:35   #58
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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in fact i would have the moderators delete this thread till after you ahve your day in court.
That would help only if your adversary were unaware of Google Cache.
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Old 27-08-2011, 17:29   #59
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

I think that people can read our respective posts and come to their own conclusions regarding them.

Can we now stop the hijack and get back to the original topic?
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Old 27-08-2011, 17:50   #60
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Re: Joe Was Arrested

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Originally Posted by Tori View Post
They doubted our story about living on a boat and called the marina to verify. The only reason the officer knew the addresses changed was that the addresses on joes security licenses did not match the DL. The security address has to be the county in which you are currently residing the dl your permanent address.
I still don't understand why they arrested him. That happened to me and all I got was a non-moving violation.
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