Cruising and the Coming Storm ~ Recession, Depression, Climate Change, Peak Oil

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by Trim50

At the equator I was able to get 200Whrs in a single day from my 800 watts of panels...

That should have been 200 Ahrs...not Whrs.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CarlF

... Income tax rates are a fraction of the 90% back then (1960s)...

Originally Posted by Therapy

Ummm...........Really?

Really.
The TOP ($200K Plus income) marginal personal tax rate was well over 90%, under Truman, in the 1940s; and about 90% under Eisenhower, Kennedy, & Johnson from 1951 - 1964.

➥ Fed U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1862-2013

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Well said.

I agree that being a cruiser distorts our view of what's happening in the rat race. We live among the healthy few and live a lower stress lifestyle. Our greatest concerns are weather and whether or not Skype will work today so we can talk with the grand kids. Our primary medications are G&Ts at sunset and fresh ground morning coffee.

That sounds great to me!! We work very hard at trying to maintain our health so that we don't fall apart at the seams until we get out there. I have a feeling that staying healthy is going to be a lot easier "out there."

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Really.
The TOP ($200K Plus income) marginal personal tax rate was well over 90%, under Truman, in the 1940s; and about 90% under Eisenhower, Kennedy, & Johnson from 1951 - 1964.

➥ Fed U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1862-2013

Taking 90% of anyone's income for any reason is criminal IMHO.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Well said.

I agree that being a cruiser distorts our view of what's happening in the rat race. We live among the healthy few and live a lower stress lifestyle. Our greatest concerns are weather and whether or not Skype will work today so we can talk with the grand kids. Our primary medications are G&Ts at sunset and fresh ground morning coffee.

It may be just possible that it's not necessarily that cruisers are healthier, another possibility is that you can't cruise unless you are, maybe a big reason why cruisers quit is health?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

Taking 90% of anyone's income for any reason is criminal IMHO.

I agree, but for example I know I pay more in tax than my Boss does, he has several accountants that ensure he doesn't by playing all sorts of games.
So don't go feeling too sorry for the very wealthy, I doubt very many pay as a percentage what I do.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I agree, but for example I know I pay more in tax than my Boss does, he has several accountants that ensure he doesn't by playing all sorts of games.
So don't go feeling too sorry for the very wealthy, I doubt very many pay as a percentage what I do.

Warren Buffett is fond of saying his tax rate is lower than his secretary’s. He does not publicize his tax returns, but for the tax year 2010, he paid $6.9 million on taxable income of $39.8 million, according to partial disclosures he made in 2011.

What is astounding about those numbers is not the 17.3% tax rate, but that Buffett’s $39.8 million of taxable income is only about 0.05% of his reported net worth ($71 billion according to Forbes, which put him third on its list of the 400 wealthiest people in the world for 2015).

Proportionately, that’s like someone with an ever-expanding net worth, currently $10 million, reporting taxable income of only $5,000 and paying a federal tax bill of only $900.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Warren Buffett is fond of saying his tax rate is lower than his secretary’s. He does not publicize his tax returns, but for the tax year 2010, he paid $6.9 million on taxable income of $39.8 million, according to partial disclosures he made in 2011.

What is astounding about those numbers is not the 17.3% tax rate, but that Buffett’s $39.8 million of taxable income is only about 0.05% of his reported net worth ($71 billion according to Forbes, which put him third on its list of the 400 wealthiest people in the world for 2015).

Proportionately, that’s like someone with an ever-expanding net worth, currently $10 million, reporting taxable income of only $5,000 and paying a federal tax bill of only $900.

If you bought $10 million worth of Apple a few years ago, you have made a lot, a huge lot, of money. But you don't owe a dime in taxes until you sell the stock. Nothing nefarious about that, unless you want to tax wealth along with income.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

If you bought $10 million worth of Apple a few years ago, you have made a lot, a huge lot, of money. But you don't owe a dime in taxes until you sell the stock. Nothing nefarious about that, unless you want to tax wealth along with income.

Way more to it than that, and yes wealth is often taxed. Most of my wealth was in land, and land is taxed. Average person has a lot of their wealth in their home, which is taxed, average person doesn't buy $10 million dollars of any kind of stock, only the very wealthy can.

Not saying it's nefarious, but there is a point on average where effective tax rate actually reverses, and that is I believe because if your wealthy enough, you hire people to manage your wealth. Just the way it is is all, I'm not trying to make any kind of statement, except that I do not believe that the very wealthy are over taxed is all. Looking at a table of tax rates does not represent tax paid.

There is a thread on here of cruising on $500 a month, well my property tax bill was $500 a month, and I am by no means rich, in fact I was land poor.

[Bertie68]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I agree, but for example I know I pay more in tax than my Boss does, he has several accountants that ensure he doesn't by playing all sorts of games.
So don't go feeling too sorry for the very wealthy, I doubt very many pay as a percentage what I do.

Yes, in fact wealthy people don't own many things, nor make a lot of money - personally, but they can be 51% owners of a small corp. in Cayman Islands that takes care of the rest. It's possible to enjoy a nice lifestyle anyway. Here you have an example: SuperYacht Madame Gu - Andrei Skoch - Metalloinvest
(please note the subtle irony about the "usufructuary" of this yacht).

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Really.
The TOP ($200K Plus income) marginal personal tax rate was well over 90%, under Truman, in the 1940s; and about 90% under Eisenhower, Kennedy, & Johnson from 1951 - 1964.

➥ Fed U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1862-2013

Thanks for the chart.
Yep for the TOP it may have been 90%......till 1964. Then down to 70%. That is a big drop. And maybe Carlf was up there in income which could make him able to cruise till he drops but those are only the privileged few. So, now what?
One thing is that we know those that were in that income bracket did not have to pay those numbers anyway....for the most part.
A lot of the same today. So now what?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It may be just possible that it's not necessarily that cruisers are healthier, another possibility is that you can't cruise unless you are, maybe a big reason why cruisers quit is health?

Yea.
Check the "Where Are All The Wannabes" thread.
You will find a couple of posts about balance issues, inability to grip, chronic fatigue and many other things.
And I am sure some will say that once out and living the life, things will improve. And that may be true for some....

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

If you bought $10 million worth of Apple a few years ago, you have made a lot, a huge lot, of money. But you don't owe a dime in taxes until you sell the stock. Nothing nefarious about that, unless you want to tax wealth along with income.

Right.
And the rate is only 15% because it is not the same as "income".