Wind Generator Necessary ?

[gettinthere]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

I would like to add a second W.G., but of a different brand than my KISS. One that will start up easier, and give juice sooner. I see some spinning quite fast in a low breeze while mine is loping along, and not adding juice that can be read on the meter.
i2f

i2f

if you find out more about low speed generation, please post it. that seems to be the key, to me anyway

[Hudson Force]

Of course, a wind generator is not necessary! Neither is my solar panel necessary or my 7KW diesel generator or even my refrigeration/freezer that without, I would have no purpose for all these other things.- especially if I had the LED anchor light that I now use. This is not a question of what is needed. but an evaluation of what you choose. The huge, greatest, singular, most, consumer of 12VDC is a freezer or refrigeration. If you choose to have this, then have all the sources of more 12VDC generation. If you don't choose to have this, then forget about it! Take care and joy, Aythya crew

[foggysail]

I got distracted and didn't finish my post. Then I ran out of time to edit it.

CONTINUING my response to Mintyspilot:

SMART MAN!

By that I mean installing 4 panels and that might not get you where you want to go. As to voltage vs current, panels resemble current sources rather than voltage sources. Hence, the output current is the same for any particular irradiance level whether it is loaded with a 12 or 24vdc battery.

These particular panels I believe will provide twice the output power if loaded with 24v batteries rather than 12. Remember, the current will be the same whether loaded into a 12 or 24 volt load. Of course you will need a regulator of sorts, either a shunt which throws power away when the batteries near their full charge state or a series regulator that throws power away all the time.

I recommend you speak with a manufacturer's applications engineer unless you have design experience using these panels. Best of luck--

Foggy

[zeehag]

this year in paradice where the weather is allegedly perfect year round, there has been a gross lack of sunshine, rendering perfection imperfect. therefore, as there is wind whether or not there is sun, a wind generator is an excellent idea. we used the combination of umpteen million watts of solar without wind during the first part of our adventure-needed to charge batts with other noisier means as there was a lot of bad weather. we cruised in the gulf for a near year. we added the wind capability and was so much better---yes, if you wish to be completely independent of shore power and of generators that are noisey, both together are the ideal.there is no guarantee you will have perfect weather.

donot forget that using the computer is a large juice suck=-at boot they are only 10 amps-8 amps, with hp at 10 amps and dell at 8. then after boot--the maintanence juice is 3-5 amps per hour. running lights are, if original, 3 amps per hour PER BULB. kinda makes running lights and anchor light the most active electricity users on the boat. even more than fridge, isnt that? figure on 2 bow lights, stern light--3x3=9ampsPER HOUR of darkness--mandatory usage.....if you use a wind genny, in a decent breeze, will offset much of that use. so--you decide if the windmill is useful. i am making my own. has more output at lower wind speeds.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so--you decide if the windmill is useful. i am making my own. has more output at lower wind speeds.

you know the rules.....show us the pictures once you're done.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if you use a wind genny, in a decent breeze, will offset much of that use. so--you decide if the windmill is useful. i am making my own. has more output at lower wind speeds.

That fellow forum member is NOT an easy task!!! Some years ago I spend a lot of time and energy designing and building a generator. I went so far as to have a casting made for the housings, ordered custom magnets (neodymium-iron boron) from China, designed manufacturing jigs, built 10 units and operated one on my sailboat for years. Mine used an alternator approach rather than the simple dc generator approach; both have benefits.

I spent months on this design and one of the hardest was designing and fabricating the 5' diameter propeller. I WAS GOING TO MANUFACTURE MY DESIGN AND SELL THE UNITS!!

I stopped dead in my tracks after I installed my unit!!! I was afraid of a LAW SUIT by some blood sucker wanting to make life "SAFE" for all God's children. I did not want to risk everything I own. And liability insurance has affordable limitations.

I will further say that if you believe you're going to build a better mouse trap you better know about mice. No I am not trying to pee into your cereal, its just that a wind generator is a moving piece of machinery. It is a design that includes both electrical and mechanical engineering.

You say your going to build a machine that has more output at lower wind speeds. Good enough!! But whatever you build will obey the formula

P= 1/2d*A*S^3 where d is wind density, A is area swept by the blade and S is wind speed. OH, wind density varies 10-15% depending on the season.

Enough! My point is do not over simply the task and good luck with your design.

Foggy

[zeehag]

ix will be a definite--i already have the motor part--i just need a few bits--a friend gave me his spare motor---his worked well...looking forward to finishing this cake--lol--but isnt from scratch--was a mix..this isnt gonna be a purrty one for yotties--is gonna be a functional one for cruisers on a broken shoestring budget..........

[bene505]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

No way. I want a minimum of two panels and possibly 4. I want 24V output so that I ensure that I get up to charging voltage even in poor conditions and I do understand that the doubling the voltage halves the current.

Instead get an MPPT controller. They take power at whatever voltage from the solar panels and step it up to battery charging voltage. You'll get more charging that way, IMHO.

Regards,
Brad

[zeehag]

solar panels dont charge at night. when there is a night wind, i would love to take advantage of that in my boat, s i have been able to do on opbs. is excellent use of nature without loss of simplicity.

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by foggysail

....I spent months on this design and one of the hardest was designing and fabricating the 5' diameter propeller. I WAS GOING TO MANUFACTURE MY DESIGN AND SELL THE UNITS!!

Recently, some chappie here in England decided that he would make some domestic utensil from first principles. He decided on a toaster. After realising the sheer effort involved just to make wires, get metal to make an eject spring, etc he understood why mass production works when the local supermarket sells a toaster for less than £5.

Some things just are not worth the effort. Paying up is cheaper.

How to make a toaster - Features, Gadgets & Tech - The Independent

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by mintyspilot

Recently, some chappie here in England decided that he would make some domestic utensil from first principles. He decided on a toaster...

"... Thwaites was invited to show his toaster at a design institute in Rotterdam. It would be the first time his project would be powered up. "I started getting a bit concerned about the health and safety implications," says Thwaites, the man who microwaved steel. "I spent hours earthing the thing to make sure it wouldn't electrocute me or the audience." Thwaites then loaded his toaster with bread and flicked the switch. "It worked for approximately half a second," he recalls. "It was encouraging in that the bit that got hot was meant to get hot – the element – it just got too hot too quickly and melted. I examined the bread for the faintest signs of crispness but I couldn't find any. My toaster toasted itself rather than the bread..."

[capt_douglas]

Originally Posted by Preposterous

Are wind generators really that necessary? I am having trouble justifying the cost of one when I have a perfectly good diesel engine to charge my batteries. With that said, I am planning on living on moorings for the majority of my time when I take this journey down south.

If you're never going to leave the boat for an extended period then the wind generator, or solar may not be needed. However, if you want the fridge and freezer to run, the bilge pump(s) to have plenty of voltage to run, then you're going to need supplemental power.

The problems with running the engine are load, pollution, and noise. Most engines are readily heard in quiet anchorages and those anchored/moored down wind are going to be the recipients of the byproducts of running the engine. The other problem is that diesels like to be run at high (80%+) loads or problems can result. Since most alternators are designed to provide optimum output at a given range of engine RPMs, chances are you're going to have to run the engine at RPMs much higher than idle. You also are going to be changing the oil and filters more often as well.

The questionable electronics would be perhaps a window unit a/c and a microwave? Can a WG generate enough juice to take care of the use (Night time only).

A/C units are very inefficient. A modest 16000BTU unit will cost you about 1.2KWH to run. That would equate to 10A @ 120VAC or 100A @ 12VDC. I don't think there's a wind generator, alternator, or solar panel combination that would provide the needed power at night.

Has anyone had success with mounting a window a/c unit on a Catalina 34'? Remember, my coffers are down quite a bit.

I've seen RV/Coleman AC units that fit into the deck hatch but then again, they're power hungry, heavy, and don't seem to do well in salty enviroments.

My suggestion would be wind scoops, fans, awning, and getting used to the cooler temps at night.

If you _require_ a/c then maybe a small gas genset (Honda 2000i for example) may be the best solution. Since you're planning on being on the mooring balls, chances are you can get gas most places. Many gensets are very fuel efficient but most inexpensive ones use gas as opposed to diesel.

[Patient]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i am making my own. has more output at lower wind speeds.

I would love to see your final product.
I worked on windmills a lot in college and we came up with some really interesting designs including flexible foils made out of elastic materials that "tune" themselves.

Can't wait to tinker with windgen when the time comes.

[w1651]

Delco makes a one wire altenator and you can pick up a flex fan at a parts store to attach to the front where the pulley goes. After that it's going to need a pedastal that will allow it to turn and it will need a weather proof cover that still lets air flow through it to cool it.
I was thinking of using this as a home made wind generator as well. Just can't grasp the pedestal mounting that turns. Yet! Im sure a electrical supply house has them.

[Hudson Force]

Windmills? What am I missing? Are there cruisers out there grinding grain and making their own flour?