Which boat layout is best for liveaboard couple?

[duefocena]

I have to say after 25 years living aboard on boats ranging from a Westsail 32' to my current Lagoon 42' that the cat is the way to go. Twin small diesels make it hugely maneuverable. Room for a full galley with space all to your self. Sailing flat is so much less work and being on the hook in a rolling anchorage she is stable as can be. Beds that you can walk around to make are a real pleasure. You get to sleep on your side when cruising not only on your back in a monohull. Loads of room to work on engines and the galley doesn't need to be torn up for you to do so. Tankage for plenty of water, fuel and waste while not significantly impacting living or storage space. Room for clothes in real closets not tiny hanging lockers. Twin engines if one goes bad, twin heads for the same reason. Plenty of room for solar. Sailing in big wind without living on your side. I've lived for a long time on a lot of different boats and I can't imagine going back to a monohull.

[Sandero]

Julie,
My experience is long in years... 30 with the boatI own, but limited to this and a few others I had the pleasure to sail. One I lived on in the Canaries for a winter and several others I done deliveries on and a few day sails.

I loved the size of the Stevens50 I think it was. WOW that had so much space! It was a fast sailer too. I don't remember too much about the features however.

Some of the things I like about my Contest... not in order of significance:

high free board... it's drier at sea!
operable ports in hull - vision and ventilation (possible because of high freeboard)
excellent headroom (possible because of high freeboard)
isolated anchor locker.. large and drains well overboard and stores lots of chain
dashboard above companionway for instrument repeaters good visibility (hate pedestal pods for aesthetic reasons)
stern boarding / swim ladder (also for retrieval of MOB)
large cockpit... can lie down fore and aft or athwartship
folding table in cockpit
forward facing hatches - ventilation
galley large, U shaped and at companionway. You can strap yourself in and work the whole galley and pass to the cockpit. Handy shelf next to companionway for stuff
nav station large enough for a chart, surrounded by instruments visible from companionway/ w shelves for???
Engine access... forward or aft.
lots of hand grips for movement thru the cabin in a seaway
head with large forward facing hatch "as" shower which means entire head gets washed and wiped after every shower - no smells! (hand holds, hand shower)
ventilated locker
wide steps to cockpit w/ built in storage... flashlights, flares etc.
deck stepped mast... no water leaking in
heavy wood rub strake w/ ss trim.
light colored hull - quality gelcoat and no paint!!!!! (except stripes)
good cockpit drainage
storage cubbies in coaming sides for winch handles and stuff.
all engine and navigation control forward and under dodger.

[anacapaisland42]

Comfortable sleeping berth, avoid climbing into a V berth.
Bill

[kas_1611]

As someone who has been living on my yacht for some time (although not necessarily "liveaboard" as we only do a month at a time due to work) my advice is to look for some of the following:

Large master cabin with lots of stowage and possibly ensuite heads/shower
Comfortable saloon area with lots of stowage
Well laid out galley with lots of stowage
At least 1 guest cabin - we have 2 aft cabins but one is our junk room where we store bags, bikes and the dink when rolled up
Main heads with proper stand up shower
Good navigation area ideally separate from the main saloon
Stowage, stowage, stowage!!

Extra water tank if possible (we added the extra 150litres at purchase and have used it)

Bimini, sprayhood and shades on all windows/hatches plus mosquito nets (vital in the tropics). Add some tarpaulins for extra shade and think about windscoops to help with ventilation.

Regardless of which mainsail you go for get all lines run back to the cockpit if you are sailing with just two as it makes it much easier to handle the sails without having to leave the security of the cockpit.
Adjustable Genoa car tracks for the same reason.

Large house battery bank - we are thinking of doubling up our 135Ah to 2x135 to give extra time away from shore power or running the engine. Solar and wind for keeping the batteries topped up and allowing extra electricals to be used (especially if you want to run a freezer).

Insulate your chiller to reduce the drain on the battery. The more insulation you can fit around the outside or like us on the inside will make a huge difference. We can actually make ice in our chiller but more importantly we can keep the temperature to below 8ºC almost constantly for only 10mins of compressor per hour just with 10mm of closed cell foam inside the cabinet.

If you are considering the Med then aft cockpit makes "stern to mooring" much easier as you are right there at the aft for line handling and seeing where your corners are, especially if only 2 of you.

Anchor - don't believe the tables and get the largest anchor you can with plenty of chain/rode for storm conditions. We have a 16kg Delta at present for a 40ft cruiser which is OK (just) for moderate conditions but woeful in a storm. Thinking of upgrading to a 33kg Rocna/Vulcan with 100m of chain/rode to open up more anchorages and to give us much better security when the wind gets up to 35-40kts (or more!).

At the end of the day you will know which layout or design is right for you. We looked at several makers before settling on ours and would not change her for the world. She works well for us but others might find she's just not for them.

Hope this helps

Keiron

[svfraidknot]

i like my solaris 41 catamaran ,, as ideal for two couples but it now only has one head ,,, great for live aboard with 3 berths huge salon but the rear full coverd deck makes being top side more inviting less time below decks

[Greenhand]

I realize that I made my first post entirely about the interior and engine access. Perhaps that is because I am not convinced that our current sail plan and cockpit arrangement are "the best." I recently sailed on a boat that had a high transom that you could lean against while standing at the helm, that was nice. I also think a cutter rig would be good for cruising, but I have never actually sailed one.

[AIRDALE143]

I cannot answer your question, however, I have a 79 C&C 40 foot, 7'draft, currently going through a complete retrofit. So far got a new carbon mast, deck & hull have been completely restored in areas where balsa core was determined to be wet. Boat is currently in Bristol RI indoors at boat repair facility. This would be ideal time to design it the way you like. I am considering selling after 3 years, due tp the captain that was suppose to be helping me walked out. I have already purchased new ICOM 604A & 802 radio systems, had 5 B&G analog gages all certified and tested for installation, all winches have been refurbished and tested.
and many more. You would have to determine if this is a course to take.I will surely miss not going sailing, as I have never been.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

...........................
.................. I recently sailed on a boat that had a high transom that you could lean against while standing at the helm, that was nice.
......................

Helm position is an important feature. I think obligate standing at the helm is a bad choice. I would place the abiltiy to stand or sit or lay back with good vision and have this port or starboard of the wheel as a requirement.

I don't hesitate to engage the autopilot for times, but my old 1973 Benmar hydraulic drive requires to much 12VDC for a long term if I don't have some solar or wind generator input. Also, if I'm in a swell I can better anticipate the ride and changes with the wind at the crests and troughs. Options at the helm are pretty important to me!

[a64pilot]

Why such big boats for a couple? I looked at about 40 being the sweet spot, big enough, but not quite so much of a bear in crosswind docking situations etc. and I can single hand it, face it, if it's a couple sailing it, there will be a LOT of single handing.
Seems people start out now saying either "of course we have to have a Cat"
Or we are looking at about the 50' size?
Personally I think I'd rather have a 40' Cat than a 50' Mono, but both are going to be expensive to keep and a bear to handle the sails on etc, But I'd guess the Cat would be easier to handle and have just as much room?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Sandero]

Some excellent comments about features in general... big anchor, lots of chain, powerful windlass of course, robust AP (below decks) Never enough stowage/lockers...All lines led to cockpit... canvas for sun protection... awning, bimini, dodger. Reliable reefing system. Fiddles on all horizontal surfaces... Big house bank and separate start back... Alt charging.... solar and or wind...

Shiva has an engine drive refer system. It works very well. It does required an hr or two of engine on per day... BUT this is not bad at all... When I sail I motor out and when I return I motor into / through the anchorage and have to run the engine when the windlass is on duty... it's an electricity hog. Running the engine tops of batts... makes lots of hot water. This engine running time at anchor is the time to vacuum, shower and so on and the engine replenishes amps and hot water. Of course you need a reliable battery monitor and high output alt with a smart regulator.

Many of the "things" you need are systems in the boat.. not the design OF the boat. But together they make it a proper live aboard cruising yacht.

[JPA Cate]

Features of this boat that I really like:
* two crash bulkheads fwd, one aft, in front of the rudder post
* sugar scoop stern, with boarding ladder
* soft dodger, with unzipping center "window" for ventilation
* engine is under the bench which is the inboard side of the "U" of the galley
* U shaped galley, does not need butt belt [but the latter work find, IMO]
* instead of an aft head, we have a large pantry and hanging locker
* ventilation: even the aft cabins have 3 opening ports each, all also have fans, gotta close those ports when it's raining, two dorades, 3 opening ports per side in the saloon, plus a mid-hatch and hatch over the sink in the galley, as well as a large hatch over the master cabin's berth; all hatches have hatch dams surrounding them
* owners cabin forward for best ventilation--our two double berths have standard size double beds, saving me from having to make fitted sheets for them, and the other double cabin has two singles--and is used as a "shed"
* separate shower sump and pump---and dusty bilges
* our boat was built by a boat builder & his wife for his own use, and the timberwork is exquisite, and the boat works very well in a seaway. She has finger rails, rather than handholds.

Ann

[ranger58sb]

I know you said a sailboat, Julie, so some of this is for other readers:

We are propulsion-agnostic; never met a system I didn't like, although wifey is not fond of heeling.

Our analysis led to a powerboat, which we use mostly in "trawler" fashion. The trade-offs with space, interior light and views (no cave), absence of deck clutter (winches, sheets, shrouds, stays, booms), visibility (from the flying bridge), and near-constant speeds (no dependence on wind speed/direction) brought us to that.

As we age, we appreciate the differences in effort: one-handed gears and throttles versus winches, sheets, and halyards.

Fuel, for us, is only a very small part of our overall expenses. Indeed, the smallest part, so far by far.

Not a recommendation; just an observation.

-Chris

[TheThunderbird]

Moody 46 and Liberty45o provide excellent standard.

I want to stress:
Dedicated workshop
Fractional cutter rig (I hate furling, so I use no genoa, just yankee, staysail, olimpic and storm jib; a code0 when wallet allows)
Both electric and hydraulic auto-pilots
Design: by a PROMINENT DESIGNER: along a 54' I cant make a single reproach.

However, I have eliminated one of 2 double-berth cabins, one being an office+kitchen eqt area
Stowage area is never enough, but fenders+ropes must find primary allocation, since i hate seeing them around .

It will take 2years to determine most fitting position for everything... :-)

[Vagekennis]

Hi,

Surely there is no such thing as the best boat and you will have your own preferences. We a couple bot approx. 50 live on a Bavaria 46 build 1997 and have done so for the almost 2 years now..but.

We started to live aboard in the Netherlands and have shipped now to Singapore. We left the Netherlands with minus 20 degrees that night and today and last weeks it has been + 34 celcius. Conditions of what you want to do and where you live have a huge impact.

We have a great heating system and had isolated the boat for our cold environment. Right now we think about additional insulation of our fridge.

In the cold the teak deck offered a better warm cabin than most other boats but here you can not walk bare foot without burning yourself.

Bavaria has been my choice after having several boats as it is cost effective and after service is really good. Even now if I need something I just email the factory and they can either send the part or help me purchase it somewhere.

Another thing is that many parts are standard parts that are available every where. this makes your life easier as thing do break and tear.

Than your budget. Buy a boat at 60% of your real budget, spend the rest to make it your boat. Looking at your numbers this will limit you. If you travel a lot you will find anything above 60 foot likely very expensive, marinas etc are more difficult to find if you go big. but also if you need permits etc. This also means that a catamaran is more difficult to berth in many areas and even though it is nice, Think about what you will actually do with your boat before you n=buy. Do not buy a boat for your friends but just for you and the logic crew.

For us 15 meters is perfect to handle just by two, if needed I can dock alone and we do not have bow thrusters etc. If enough money I would consider a hanse 575 but it is very high and needs electronics to be handled by a team of two. We could sleep 10 when we bought the boat(changed now to 6 with a huge masterbedroom) so we have more than enough space. at 46 foot we think a crew of 6 is max if you like breathing space, especially on long to9urs in bad whether.

We have 2 bathrooms, not that you need that, but it is nice to have privacy. IN the north we never used our transom shower but here it is a perfect tool. What will be your sailing area for 80% of time?

I work and dress in style, now we do have sufficient room for several suits and shirts etc. If I would not work this would look ridiculously much, but now it is just enough.. Do you work, do you need a desk? I love the dedicated chart table. We have our own internet system aboard. All this comes over time, it is a matter of years to develop what you really need.
and what you can through out.


Think about all that before your buy.

Success
Walter
SY vage kennis

[Hudson Force]

As I read through this thread again I'm struck by how much we differ in what experienced cruiser's feel are needed or desired.

Somethings that I don't have that I don't have on my list to obtain are:

Dedicated workshop, nav station, chart table, electric windlass, all halyards accessed at the cockpit, inverter, dedicated starting battery bank, chart plotter, .......

Some of this is due to space allocation on a vessel that is not at 45' to 50' in length. I have a space that "turns into" a workshop at the mid-ship space at my large aft cabin berth. I have a nice dining table that is the desk I'm using now and my chart table when needed. My missing "nav station" is present in a way, but all within reach of my helm for nav electronics. The major functions of a chart plotter are split between paper work and my little GPS screen. The inverter & starting bank qualities are covered by by diesel generator with it's separate battery. Adherance to safety procedures with harness & tether mitigate my lack of main halyard to my cockpit. My manual windlass has great mechanical design and is not a challenge at my present physical condition.

I would stress that my choices above are not presented as "better", but just a disclosure of what I do. The "best layout for a livaboard couple" will be full of compromises and different by where and how they would cruise.