To board or not to board, that is the question

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Local (US) law enforcement, the DEA, etc. don't operate in foreign waters and obviously US case law, Supreme Court rulings, and our Constitution do apply in foreign jurisdictions. Any cruiser who doesn't understand this shouldn't be cruising.

Neither the constitution nor related legal precedent (Supreme Court rulings) have any relevance outside the USA. As suggested, give it try sometime.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Factor

Here we go again. It is unlikely that they (USCG) would find themselves in Australian Waters but if they did they CANNOT board any vessel here US flagged or otherwise.

They do need permission of other countries to operate in their waters of course, but here in Central America their presence is fairly common. Ive seen them in all CA countries and they do board USA vessels...other flags too I assume.

Ive also seen USA military/DEA operating as part of joint drug interdiction teams with local military. Such was the case with the Women in Black who showed up on my dock...one was my caretaker's cousin so it was all very cordial.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by subie

My perception is America has become a target and maybe the men in uniform should be supported that is doing their bit to keep you oke's safe.

Today the whole world is a target.

So to do your bit, do you support the local police department randomly entering your home and searching to make sure you aren't hiding a terrorist? Entering with no reason, no probably cause, no evidence but just to check? If I'm living on my boat that's what I face.

[CSY Man]

Never been boarded, sailed for work and for pleasure since the 70s.
Must be doing something right, clean living and all.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Never been boarded, sailed for work and for pleasure since the 70s.
Must be doing something right, clean living and all.

They don't board boats that have the hidden bugs.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Neither the constitution nor related legal precedent (Supreme Court rulings) have any relevance outside the USA. As suggested, give it try sometime.

To nit pick I would word this as "Neither the constitution nor related legal precedent (Supreme Court rulings) have any relevance within the sovereign territory of countries outside the USA".

Right or wrong, the USCG does claim and enforce the right to board US flagged vessels in international waters and have done so for years. I have met a number of sailors that were boarded in the northern Caribbean, mainly in the Yucatan Channel and Windward Passage. I was closely passed and carefully checked out by a CG cutter in the Yucatan but not boarded. In the Windward Passage once I was buzzed by a USCG C-130 and heard the cutter on VHF talking to other vessels, so they weren't far but again was not boarded.

They also board US flagged vessels in the waters of other countries like the Bahamas and Colombia, where they have agreements or permission from the local government to do so.

[darylat8750]

I have my weapons safely stored. One is always loaded and in condition one. They are unavailable to guests (locked storage device) and in a holster. Many accidental discharges happen when loading or unloading a pistol. At the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers we are required to unload our weapons at the entrance. There is a safety station with a heavy pipe that the muzzle is inserted into for safety while clearing the chamber. (Or loading on leaving the FELTEC.) The concept of taking a firearm that they may or may not be familiar with out of a safe storage area and working the slide without a bullet catchment device is not the safest way to deal with the situation. They should leave it in the locked storage device.

I hope every one has taught all the little ones that they have anything to do with "If you find a gun don't touch it! Tell an adult."

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

I have my weapons safely stored. One is always loaded and in condition one. They are unavailable to guests (locked storage device) and in a holster. Many accidental discharges happen when loading or unloading a pistol. At the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers we are required to unload our weapons at the entrance. There is a safety station with a heavy pipe that the muzzle is inserted into for safety while clearing the chamber. (Or loading on leaving the FELTEC.) The concept of taking a firearm that they may or may not be familiar with out of a safe storage area and working the slide without a bullet catchment device is not the safest way to deal with the situation. They should leave it in the locked storage device.

I hope every one has taught all the little ones that they have anything to do with "If you find a gun don't touch it! Tell an adult."

Relevance to this thead?

There is a separate gun forum.

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Relevance to this thead?

There is a separate gun forum.

Sorry for the thread drift. But that is one of the things they do when boarding and the only thing that I have seen that doesn't make sense.

The court rulings are another issue.

[CSY Man]

. They don't board boats that have the hidden bugs.

Yup, my system works well..

[Dave22q]

[QUOTE=skipmac;2162433]Here's my problem. I have several times been a full time liveaboard, for a couple of years with a wife and daughter. At those times the boat was our home, our only home.

So would you have a problem if some law enforcement agency had the right to come to your personal home on land with a team of armed agents, at any time of the day or night, without a warrant, without probable cause, without your permission, to enter and search your home or do a "safety inspection"? I'm pretty sure you would have a bitch with that.



I have no 'bitch' about what I suspect are imaginary problems. The USCG has no pattern of conducting inspections of docked boats and night stops are generally not safety inspections but suspicion of drug trafficing. An armed posse raiding your home in the middle of the night sounds bad especially if you are dealing or banking for a dealer but that is not a problem of living aboard. I challange my fellow cruisers to cite some examples to prove me wrong.

[Cadence]

[QUOTE=Dave22q;2163257]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Here's my problem. I have several times been a full time liveaboard, for a couple of years with a wife and daughter. At those times the boat was our home, our only home.

So would you have a problem if some law enforcement agency had the right to come to your personal home on land with a team of armed agents, at any time of the day or night, without a warrant, without probable cause, without your permission, to enter and search your home or do a "safety inspection"? I'm pretty sure you would have a bitch with that.



I have no 'bitch' about what I suspect are imaginary problems. The USCG has no pattern of conducting inspections of docked boats and night stops are generally not safety inspections but suspicion of drug trafficing. An armed posse raiding your home in the middle of the night sounds bad especially if you are dealing or banking for a dealer but that is not a problem of living aboard. I challange my fellow cruisers to cite some examples to prove me wrong.

? Have you had them board you under the home situation.

[wrwakefield]

Hi Livaboard,

It sounds like a bit of professional courtesy [even though you were only an engineer...] <I'm grinning...>

On our page for setting expectations for our guests, we have an entry regarding this topic that others may also find informative:

US flagged vessels are subject to Federal laws [typically via the US Coast Guard] which supersede State laws. Consequently, US boats are subject to being boarded at anytime, anywhere in the world without cause. [4th amendment rights have not extended to US flagged vessels since 1949- even if they are your domicile. See this explanation of 14 USC 89 for more info.]

We mention this not to complain, but to make sure you are forewarned...

For example, here is a video of some

at 4:15am for 4.5 hours and having their boat searched and bodies swabbed for drug testing in Oct-2015

Cheers!

Bill

[Winf]

Ok, not USCG related but was once boarded by boating and fisheries off Western Australia.

I had done some checks on the legislation and although I disagree strongly, they have the right to board and inspect for breaches of the fisheries regs. They wanted to inspect our fridge and freezer.

So after the inspection (we happened to have no fish aboard at the time - not unusual, most fish get eaten same day caught) I wanted to clarify some of the regs.

A few days prior, my wife had caught a beautiful 86cm long barramundi. For those who don't know, barra are a bit of an iconic species over here, great fighting, great eating, beautiful looking fish.

Now in WA, barra have both a minimum size and a maximum size. Our fish was within the range so totally legal. Other regs however state that all barra in your possession must be kept whole (gutted only) unless it is for immediate consumption. Having checked this before, immediate consumption essentially means it is cooking or you are about to put it in the pan to cook it and eat it.

Now there was no way we could fit something that size whole (or even in halves) in our fridge or freezer so we photographed it on a measurement board and filleted the fish and put the fillets in the fridge. We had them all eaten in a day or so but I asked the fisheries officer if this was acceptable.

Answer was no and were advised if they had found that in our fridge they would have fined us and confiscated the fish. So what should we do I asked?

Her answer was that we should have taken the fillets that we could cook and eat straight away and throw the rest of the fish away.

I won't even begin to describe what I think of that gem.

Winf

[Big Macca]

Macanudo was boarded by the US Navy off the Colombian coast 11 years ago, which was notable only for the fact that their ship didn't show up on the radar.

In Australia you'll occasionally be buzzed by Border Force aircraft, more often if you're in the far north where the people smugglers operate. They will always ask the same inane questions via radio.

Closer to shore you come under state police and state Maritime Services department jurisdiction. Mostly they leave you alone, unless they see you doing something really stupid.

Our only memorable boarding was by seven burly Queensland cops who did ask for permission to come aboard, but really didn't know one end of a boat from the other. They were obviously just out for a fun trip aboard their big RIB.

I'm told you can refuse them permission to board, but hell, saying that to a cop is inviting them to find a reason.