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Old 24-07-2012, 06:43   #46
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
I'm not saying there aren't cheaper liveaboard alternatives, there are. I'm only saying that when you look at the whole spectrum of liveaboards, the (marina-based) vagabond end of that spectrum is perhaps 10-20 percent. I have a job, I need a car and a few, quite small storage lockers. That's not unusual.

What is Unusual about you Sneu, is that you'r honest about your
standings. where as many so-called cruisers are just hiding under the
stigma of being cruisers.
cruisers like vagabonds have always been looked up to as being
out of the normal way of thinking of most.. those that venture beyond the
normal lifestyle and safety of home-based living, with a job, a white picket fence, 2.5 children, and a morgage.
and at the risk of being flamed on, a cruisers lifestyle is also a place for those without,
to fit in ..
you can be a homeless person and live under a bridge, and you're homeless, but if you throw that backpack over your sholder and start walking, you're now a traveler with style, ..
its the difference between having to live that way and wanting to live that way..
We dont have the luxury of having an income comming in without working for it, so for now, we're part time cruisers, we work for a few months, and we cruise for a few months... We chose this lifestyle because we wanted to, not because we have to and have the ability to move back on land at anytime...........
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Old 24-07-2012, 06:59   #47
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

I've discovered that there are a LEAST two kinds of live aboard folks..

1. Those that live on a boat because they love the water lifestyle.

2. Those that live on a boat because in CAN be cheap..

The two classes live 100% different lifestyles...
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Old 24-07-2012, 07:02   #48
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It's called a B&R rig. It's sturdy in the same way a tripod is sturdy, a concept that goes back to the pyramids.

Look it up--you may learn something.
Ah yes , the Break & Replace rig!!
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:03   #49
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
I've discovered that there are a LEAST two kinds of live aboard folks..

1. Those that live on a boat because they love the water lifestyle.

2. Those that live on a boat because in CAN be cheap..

The two classes live 100% different lifestyles...
I appreciate and understand this dichotomy, but many fall into both categories. We love the lifestyle and love the abiity to live as we do well beneath our income. My wife and I both held jobs that kept us at the dock for 190 days/year for 32 years. We raised our children aboard and remained members of a single community while daily driving to work in our two cars. We've been more like "vagabonds" over our last ten years of retirement and spending less than we did when we were working, but with more descretionary income. During the forty years that we have been living aboard and cruising we always seen those with more and those with less,- those with boating as an occasional recreation and those with boating as a means to stay a step above homeless.
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:05   #50
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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raku--do you reside aboard?

You know I do, but I sail the boat a lot. I don't see how being a live-aboard changes definitions ...
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:17   #51
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

rtbates-there are those living aboard who have to keep STUFF and those sans stuff--- some need extra benefits of marinas and those who do not. i choose to spend named storm season repairing and enjoying the low season of a village which in high season is magically transformed into a tourist mayhem.
some folks dont wander too far from their chosen home--some dont have chosen locale to consider home--my home is my boat and wherever i go is where my home is located. i think is much better than being stuck in one spot forever and ever---when i worked i was stuck, essentially , in one place or such--had to have the accoutrements of work yet maintain some flexibility as i repaired and worked. now is better as i can move around and enjoy different places when i want to do so. and never the same place twice, so far. is lovely. even when fixing major systems.
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:46   #52
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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rtbates-there are those living aboard who have to keep STUFF and those sans stuff--- some need extra benefits of marinas and those who do not. i choose to spend named storm season repairing and enjoying the low season of a village which in high season is magically transformed into a tourist mayhem.
some folks dont wander too far from their chosen home--some dont have chosen locale to consider home--my home is my boat and wherever i go is where my home is located. i think is much better than being stuck in one spot forever and ever---when i worked i was stuck, essentially , in one place or such--had to have the accoutrements of work yet maintain some flexibility as i repaired and worked. now is better as i can move around and enjoy different places when i want to do so. and never the same place twice, so far. is lovely. even when fixing major systems.

Everyone has different needs. I'm 66, and I have cerebral palsy, and it is better for me to live in a marina and sail from there. I don't have the sailing skills yet to sail anywhere in the world and take it step by step. But I live aboard 100% of the time.
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:50   #53
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by zeta View Post
I have never lived on a boat, though I have spent weekends and up to a week cruising. I visited Rockport, TX yesterday to do a little boat browsing and it was disappointing to say the least. A good number of livaboards, but most did not seem to be living--just surviving. Most of the vessels were let's just say, less than ship shape. I hope this is not the norm as I plan in the very near future to go cruising full-time. Now I am not a snob by any means as a bed and roof will do me fine; however, it seemed that the life these folks were living would be less than satisfying, at least to me, but who am I to judge?
Questions:
Is it easier/harder or no difference keeping a boat shipshape cruising or locked to the dock?
Seems all the cruising boats I ran across were in very decent shape. I thought it may be only $$$$, but I kept all my boats in great shape with very little funds, but a lot of elbow grease.
So it leads me to believe the "thrill is gone", is this common?
Like you, I have never lived aboard. I do have a sister in law that does live aboard with husband and 2 teenagers. As much as I love sailing and bots, I can't possibly see me living in the confines of a boat with my 2 kids. For me personally, that is not an option, but I sincerely respect how others can do it.

These in laws live in a very nice and desirable downtown marina in St. Petersburg, FL. Having spent several weekends there visiting, I can tell you a few observations from a personal stand point regarding most of the live aboard people I see there at least. However, I will generalize (there is always plenty of exceptions to the rule) because I have seen the same elsewhere:

1.Most live aboard marinas seem to be a cross breed between carnie/gypsies and a trailer park with some "normal people" sprinkled in between. Despite the massive amounts of money that it costs to have a large yacht, most seem to be merely surviving in no different conditions than they would be in a trailer park on the skirts of town.
2. Cleanliness for boat and self seem to run the spectrum, but generally seem to be in the lacking department.
3. Most don't move their boats much, if at all. Some can't even afford the gas to do so in their large motorboats! There is a couple with a teenager a few slips down from them that have been there for 6 years and have not moved the boat once from the slip. They call it their downtown flatting condo. They couldn't afford the diesel to do it even if they wanted to!!! Some of the ones with sailboats consider it too much work to go in and out. Some have been waiting for "the right window" since 2003 to go out for a couple of days.
4. The bulk live in older boats that require and NEED a lot of attention. It is one thing to have fading paint but a clean and well taken care of exterior and another an almost abandoned boat that is obvious has had not even minor maintenance in years.
5. Financial solvency almost seems to be all over the spectrum too. There are guys in what looks like a falling apart camper on 2 pontoons with a window AC unit almost falling into the water, cables and duct tape everywhere, with barely enough room for a single midget yet living with large dog and a huge bucket with an award winning collection of cigarette butts. Then, there are others living in a 60+ feet vessel in almost the same condition. You see then roaming the docks all day, nothing to do, no work, browsing through the garbage dumpster at times, taking stuff out constantly to "fix", etc. You can also see the hunger in their faces. On the other side of the spectrum, you see the ones in a well taken care of and clean boat, that are out to dinner constantly, drinking wine on the cockpit with friends, shopping, etc.

I could go on, bout I am sure you are already labeling me as "an elitist or infidel", and I am very concerned with being politically correct, not offending anyone, and public perception of myself I am also sure you see these people everywhere, not just live aboard marinas.

Frankly, if I lived aboard I am sure I would be actually sailing and cruising far less. Having to coordinate with kids schedules, wife's work schedule, my own work, etc to take the house out for a couple of days is far more difficult than simply leaving it behind (with or without kids/wife) while I go out for the day or 2.
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Old 24-07-2012, 08:50   #54
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Wrong again. First of all, the B&R wasn't designed by Hunter. It was designed by Bergstrom & Ridder (get it, B&R?) who were trying to increase strength while reducing weight aloft.

Here, read something Bob Perry wrote about this. You'll find the rig has nothing to do with cocktails or cockpits. Bergstrom & Ridder 38

But you knew that, right? Just a bit of gratuitous Hunter bashing?
Bash,
I wouldn't bother trying to respond with logic and information. His off topic posts are just trolling for an argument.

Scott
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Old 24-07-2012, 09:18   #55
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

some design concepts are more than some folks can understand. i understand em --i just dont like em..LOL is a difference. we all and each have our preferences--some prefer due to lack of understanding of other concepts, some like for just those concepts--isnt it a wonderful world!!!! so many choices and so much to enjoy!!!
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Old 24-07-2012, 09:30   #56
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

I have noticed that there are those that have boats and seldom use them and thus seldom take care of them. I have seen boats with a super clean interior and on purpose a not so clean exterior as to not invite the 'unwanted' while they are away from their boat. And, I have met folks that do more buffing of the exterior than they do sailing.

So to say that someones reasoning for the condition of their boat is right or wrong is really a problem for those that are doing the judging.
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Old 29-07-2012, 09:16   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates
I've discovered that there are a LEAST two kinds of live aboard folks..

1. Those that live on a boat because they love the water lifestyle.

2. Those that live on a boat because in CAN be cheap..

The two classes live 100% different lifestyles...
My fiancÚ and I moved onto our 26' Laguna Windrose to cut loving expenses $750 rent + $200 utilities + $300 food to $221 slip + $47 storage + $150 cell phone + $300 food.
The marina has free shore power. The reason we live at the marina (for the time being) is to have access to other sailor's skills for trade so we can get the boat seaworthy again. Currently having outboard issues, but then we're heading out! He works a well paying job so we're able to save for the things we want to do an work on the boat repairs and maintenance.
It's always been my love for this boat and cruising that motivated the change in scenery so I supposed I'm a bit of both!
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Old 29-07-2012, 15:48   #58
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

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Originally Posted by zeta View Post
I have never lived on a boat, though I have spent weekends and up to a week cruising. I visited Rockport, TX yesterday to do a little boat browsing and it was disappointing to say the least. A good number of livaboards, but most did not seem to be living--just surviving. Most of the vessels were let's just say, less than ship shape. I hope this is not the norm as I plan in the very near future to go cruising full-time. Now I am not a snob by any means as a bed and roof will do me fine; however, it seemed that the life these folks were living would be less than satisfying, at least to me, but who am I to judge?
Questions:
Is it easier/harder or no difference keeping a boat shipshape cruising or locked to the dock?
Seems all the cruising boats I ran across were in very decent shape. I thought it may be only $$$$, but I kept all my boats in great shape with very little funds, but a lot of elbow grease.
So it leads me to believe the "thrill is gone", is this common?
Just to add a different perspective, I have appraised somewhere over 14,000 homes in Los Angeles during my career. I think it would be safe to say that at least 1/3 of these people live like pigs. Not only do they not maintain their homes, but they are also dirty and messy. My only conclusion is that they simply don't care. It doesn't take money to be clean and tidy. They could sand and paint their peeling windows for about 20 bucks, but they simply don't care. I think this same philosophy applies to boats. Some people simply don't care. They have no pride in the things they have worked hard to get. I personally don't buy the bravado of "I'm a real cruiser, so it's OK if my boat looks like cr@p". You either care or you don't. Peeling varnish either bothers you or it doesn't. No judgements, just own up to the kind of person you are. Truth is that if you lived on land, your house would look like cr@p too.

I don't live aboard any more, but when I did the rule was that all tools get put away by the end of the day and the boat gets put back together. When the varnish started to go, it got attended to. If a rare boat smell arose, it was found and fixed immediately. Same goes with the mechanics and rigging. This was my HOME and I was proud of it. Some simply aren't.

Mike
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Old 29-07-2012, 15:53   #59
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

Frankly, if I lived aboard I am sure I would be actually sailing and cruising far less. Having to coordinate with kids schedules, wife's work schedule, my own work, etc to take the house out for a couple of days is far more difficult than simply leaving it behind (with or without kids/wife) while I go out for the day or 2.[/QUOTE]


Ya think so? But you've never lived aboard. You don't know. I take my boat out more in a month than most people do all year.

But I urge you to NOT live aboard. You would be so busy judging all the people around you, you would have no time to run your own life.
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Old 29-07-2012, 16:15   #60
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Re: Live-aboard or Survive-aboard

A working vessel is worlds apart from a dock queen or a plastic fantastic that we are used to seeing on sunny weekends on either coast. The towboats, fishboats and beachcombers I worked on were not pretty but they were seaworthy, tough and reasonably comfortable given that their primary purpose was to earn a living for the operator.
Wm Gardner, Art DeFever and Fleming all drew the lines for their most popular models from workboats that were tried and tested in the cauldron of crappy winter weather, high winds and heavy seas where you didn't have the luxury of waiting for the wind to drop, the sea to flatten or the rain/snow to let up.
Classic lines aside, many of these working boats may appear a little cluttered, paint pealing and the odd ding in what might have once been brightwork but they have their own magic about them that is timeless.
Living aboard brings its own challenges, some rise to them and care for their boats, some don't and live in floating derelicts... this is mostly by choice, I believe.
Just take a drive through any neighborhood and you will find exactly the same care or lack of it in the shoreside homes you see.
Now living ashore after years of living aboard, not much has changed except the neighbors were nicer in the marinas I've lived in. Capt Phil
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