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Old 15-05-2016, 05:17   #31
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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Originally Posted by Dauntlessny View Post
That's pretty much as I feel. It's not even about insurance.

Also, so much depends on the circumstances: Is it possible to go to a safer place. Does leaving the boat alone mean a higher probability of its loss, etc.

Had I our boat in NYC during SS sandy, I would have gone up the Hudson 10 miles. That for me was a no brainer, but thousands did something else.

Instead, many pulled their boats and the loss of boats on the hard was substantial, in fact I think greater than in the water.

So clearly everyone has different ideas of risk, but also what the risks are.

80% of boats damage by canes in the hard are sailing again , boats in the water or in the rocks are broken in pieces or sunken... the question could be you wana see your boat lying in the hard or you wana see your masthead sticking out from the bottom of the sea.....
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Old 15-05-2016, 06:04   #32
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

Hello all, I thought I would throw my two cents worth in here. IF you are genuinely considering the option of staying on your boat in a severe tropical depression, cyclone or hurricane then I urge you to consider the following.
For those considering this decision are you factoring in that you may be prepared to risk you own life but are you really considering the fact that you may be putting other people lives at risk.
Should you decide to stay on your boat and you get into a life threatening situation there are people out there who are prepared to come and rescue you regardless of the conditions. Are you prepared to take responsibility for their lives. Our Coastguards, water police, volunteer organisations and Helicopter rescue personel do a sensational job, do you really want to put them at risk for no real good reason.
Getting caught out despite all best actions is one thing, knowing it could have been avoided is another.

Just something to consider.


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Old 15-05-2016, 06:11   #33
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Hello all, I thought I would throw my two cents worth in here. IF you are genuinely considering the option of staying on your boat in a severe tropical depression, cyclone or hurricane then I urge you to consider the following.
For those considering this decision are you factoring in that you may be prepared to risk you own life but are you really considering the fact that you may be putting other people lives at risk.
Should you decide to stay on your boat and you get into a life threatening situation there are people out there who are prepared to come and rescue you regardless of the conditions. Are you prepared to take responsibility for their lives. Our Coastguards, water police, volunteer organisations and Helicopter rescue personel do a sensational job, do you really want to put them at risk for no real good reason.
Getting caught out despite all best actions is one thing, knowing it could have been avoided is another.


Just something to consider.


Greg H
Sunshine
Lagoon 410.
Good point , exactly that happen in SXM with baby cane Gonzalo when a small couple and the kid decide to ride the storm in the open in a small sloop, at the end the SAR lifeboat end in the rocks to with the family...
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Old 15-05-2016, 06:25   #34
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

If ever you see a cat 3-4, you wouldn't stay on a boat.

Taking a look outside during one, the trees are being blown way over in one direction then seconds later in the opposite or another direction.

Then you have the pressure changes in your ears possibly due to tornadoes

During smaller hurricanes, we would watch the boats anchored in a nice hurricane hole in Bayou Grande, Pensacola, FL

The problem was that it was in front of a low bridge. Almost every time, a boat would slip anchor and slam into the bridge banging on it until the mast got knock off and the boat went under.

During the Cat 3-4 we had (Ivan) there were tons of boat anchored in this spot. Most were taken out when the navy's floating docks with many of the boats still securely tied to it rose above it's pilings and took out the anchored boats like a gigantic bowling ball.

They were all piled ashore the next day

https://www.google.com/search?q=hurr...dlv0TKrYDvM%3A


https://www.google.com/search?q=hurr...dDlhds-hPwM%3A
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Old 15-05-2016, 06:55   #35
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

I was unfortunate enough to be in Cabo when Odile rolled through a couple years ago. I was in a big resort right on the tip and the eye passed directly over us. Watching the waves come in that day it was spectacular...one of the coolest & scariest things I have ever seen. If any of you have ever been to Cabo, the spray of the breaking waves close to the time we had to take cover were breaking as high as the highest rock point at the tip...utterly amazing to see first hand. Having lived through a Cat 4 and seeing the devastation that 140mph winds can do, and escaping with my life (15 people died, 4-5 on boats if I remember correctly) there is no possible chance I would be on a boat.

Side question, with modern forecasting and all the technology available, wouldn't the only case this would happen is you are not paying attention? I mean this with no disrespect, more trying to learn from peoples real world experiences. Don't 99% of the really big storms give enough warning to give you time to sail out of its way?
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Old 15-05-2016, 07:06   #36
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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Don't 99% of the really big storms give enough warning to give you time to sail out of its way?
No, because the really big storms are REALLY BIG.

And because they keep changing direction and are moving pretty fast.

When Katrina was 180 miles below Pensacola our tide heights were similar to a Cat 1-2.

I drove an hour an a half to two hours out of New Orleans and stopped at Ocean Springs where I used to race and thought about how f'ing big Katrina was. Katrina took out the bridge between Ocean Springs and Biloxi along with the old Ocean Springs Yacht Club builds and tons of other stuff.

See link below. If you were in the US Gulf area, where are you going to sail to?
https://www.google.com/search?q=katr...lMuRbkPgmOM%3A

New Orleans:

https://www.google.com/search?q=katr...u0K4onqhOLM%3A
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Old 15-05-2016, 07:42   #37
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

lol, okay that is a good point if you were in New Orleans, but lets say you were in the Caymans couldn't you make a run south west towards Panama or something days in advance? The reason I ask is people always talk about speed equals safety when it comes to sail boats. Of course there are outlier events like Katrina or Odile where your best bet is to just get to high ground...screw the boat, that can be replaced. From a safety point, I tried getting a flight out of Cabo 40 hours before we knew it might make landfall, flights were booked & planes were grounded 24 hours prior. In 24 hours you could drive to Chicago from NOLA & be safe, driving up the Baja wasn't an option & would have been even riskier, there was no escape. I actually tried to contract a private plane to fly in from the states and they were told no planes allowed to fly in, scary stuff. Anyway I think the most prudent thing is to treat these storms with tremendous respect, those who have seen the devastation first hand have a much keener awareness, I know I sure do.
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Old 15-05-2016, 08:01   #38
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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lol, okay that is a good point if you were in New Orleans, but lets say you were in the Caymans couldn't you make a run south west towards Panama or something days in advance? The reason I ask is people always talk about speed equals safety when it comes to sail boats. Of course there are outlier events like Katrina or Odile where your best bet is to just get to high ground...screw the boat, that can be replaced. From a safety point, I tried getting a flight out of Cabo 40 hours before we knew it might make landfall, flights were booked & planes were grounded 24 hours prior. In 24 hours you could drive to Chicago from NOLA & be safe, driving up the Baja wasn't an option & would have been even riskier, there was no escape. I actually tried to contract a private plane to fly in from the states and they were told no planes allowed to fly in, scary stuff. Anyway I think the most prudent thing is to treat these storms with tremendous respect, those who have seen the devastation first hand have a much keener awareness, I know I sure do.
First, lots of depresions start to make monster form with just 1 or 2 days in advance, then you have those tricky lows that who know when or where is going to transform in something serious, and then you get those monsters that are in the middle of nowhere pointing to your location, seriously if you are 100 or 200 miles from a safe location maybe you have a chance to outrun the storm or get shelter with enough time to make preparations... saying that I see some bravo nuts sailing south with a Cat3 right at the door leaving a good hurricane mooring and end it 200 miles south in another island and hoping for the best,,,, only those big big ships can outrun Canes,,,,, if you have the feeling to make a departure as fast as posible, pull the pedal to the metal and don't loose any precious second ,,, but the reality is most folks wait until is to late and others just go Banzai and nobody see them again....Risky bussines...
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Old 15-05-2016, 08:05   #39
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

Hurricane forecasting is not nearly as accurate as it would need to be to sail out of danger. The NHS in the US publishes a "Cone of Uncertainty" for where a Hurricane is going. This cone often covers hundreds of miles along a coast. What is even worse is there is a pretty high chance the hurricane will not even stay in this cone.

In the North Atlantic the 72 hour cone has a 115 mile radius. In theory this means you could sail out of the way in most situations. However the hurricane only stays within its 5 day cone of uncertainty 60-70% of the time. This means if you try to run, there is a non-trivial chance you will get caught out in the open by a hurricane.
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Old 15-05-2016, 08:58   #40
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

I've been through many hurricanes and tropical storms. I stayed aboard for a couple anchored in a small protected harbor. I got caught in hurricane Alicia in '79 in the lower latitudes of the Gulf of mexico, in a 41' oi morgan. We had a 4 108 perkins and were close enough to the storm to get 70+ knot winds. we were barely able to keep steerage. we had no drogue or sea anchor. I've been able to not do that again. altho I'd rather be at sea than close to shore. was near shot once in a tropical storm and ...we survived. Today I tie up as best I can in the most sheltered place available and go ashore. have never Not had a place to stay in a storm, people do pull together. Near shore there isn't much you can do if something breaks. storms are powerful. Huricanes are full of Tornadoes.it only takes one. I don't want to die on land, but I don't want push my luck at sea either. Boats are repairable/replaceble. Life and limb are not. Besides you can't get any sleep bouncing around in a storm.

Respect the weather and have a great voyage
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Old 15-05-2016, 09:27   #41
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

Planning is the key, and today we have almost all means to plan ahead in regards with bad weather. Pilots have a saying : an experience pilot is so experienced that he is never trapped in a situation where he has to prove his experience.

Similar for boats, be prepared and be near a safe harbor. Why to ask questions like this? Just do your homework and never have such a decision to make.
In my home waters, East Med , we have a very bad weather breaking from South West once or twice a year. Fishermen run and take their boats out in the open sea. Have been cases where boats left in the harbors found them laying on Churches or squares
But again, why not to be prepared ?
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Old 15-05-2016, 09:49   #42
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Hello all, I thought I would throw my two cents worth in here. IF you are genuinely considering the option of staying on your boat in a severe tropical depression, cyclone or hurricane then I urge you to consider the following.
For those considering this decision are you factoring in that you may be prepared to risk you own life but are you really considering the fact that you may be putting other people lives at risk.
Should you decide to stay on your boat and you get into a life threatening situation there are people out there who are prepared to come and rescue you regardless of the conditions. Are you prepared to take responsibility for their lives. Our Coastguards, water police, volunteer organisations and Helicopter rescue personel do a sensational job, do you really want to put them at risk for no real good reason.
Getting caught out despite all best actions is one thing, knowing it could have been avoided is another.

Just something to consider.


Greg H
Sunshine
Lagoon 410.
Not sure about this -- there are times that they will not come regardless - there are times they will - depends on how bad it is -
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Old 15-05-2016, 10:46   #43
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

RainDog above got it right!

I have done both!
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Old 15-05-2016, 14:05   #44
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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Originally Posted by vmattiola View Post
Believe it or not I've gotten very mixed opinions from people about this question.

For a big big storm, do you continue to stay aboard.....or go find a place ashore for the night? I'm talking tropical depression stuff. Caribbean. Hurricane season.


What are your thoughts? Or any past experiences?
Have stayed in a few regulated Hurricane Holes in the Caribbean and they will not permit you to stay aboard during a hurricane.
Have stayed aboard during hurricanes in non regulated harbours and would not recommend it. My advice is to anchor as far away from other vessels that you can, deploy as many anchors as you have and hope for the best.
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Old 15-05-2016, 15:19   #45
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Re: Big storms? Stay aboard or sleep ashore?

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Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
...............
....................... For those considering this decision are you factoring in that you may be prepared to risk you own life but are you really considering the fact that you may be putting other people lives at risk.
Should you decide to stay on your boat and you get into a life threatening situation there are people out there who are prepared to come and rescue you regardless of the conditions. Are you prepared to take responsibility for their lives. Our Coastguards, water police, volunteer organisations and Helicopter rescue personel do a sensational job, do you really want to put them at risk for no real good reason.
Getting caught out despite all best actions is one thing, knowing it could have been avoided is another.

Just something to consider.

Greg H
Sunshine
Lagoon 410.
I do think this is an important consideration, but it does not necessarily apply to many who elect to stay aboard. I elect to remain aboard at locations about 25 to 30 miles inland at the headwaters of some creek off the main river with little fetch in all directions, shallow water, good holding, little debris, a forgiving mud or sand bank, and few or no neighboring boats. Maybe a high surrounding topography if I'm lucky.

During hurricane season with my cruising pattern, I can always find such places within a three day window and I'm always looking for cover if I can be a target within three days.

Now, I am aware of the locations of about half a dozen sailboats that are sitting in the woods hopelessly aground in the Carolinas, but they didn't start with these protected criteria; in addition, they were not cases of needed storm rescue or personal injury.

I'm not dismissing Greg H's wise advise, but it is advise to be applied to the situation and the location.
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