Best type of boat for coastal cruiser liveaboard (power, sail, small, big?)

[jm21]

Hi All,

I've posted here previously over the years. I've thought about living aboard for a long time but always found a reason not to. Due to fortunate and unfortunate events in my life I feel I'm finally ready to pull the trigger.

I would be living on the hook for at least half the year, hopefully the whole year. I would be coastal cruising in the Puget Sound area. I figure I would travel about 1,000nm per year but no real ocean voyaging. Outside of Vancouver Island maybe. Eventually I may want the ability to go down to the sea of cortez or up to alaska but not for now. While cruising I would pull into a marina every 14 days or so to fill up on water/gas/groceries.

I will be working on an internet based business and don't really like living at a marina, which is why the preference for living on the hook. I would not have to go into work every day. However, I will not be making much money so will be on a fairly tight budget (maybe $1k-1.5k per month).

I would like to keep the cost of the boat below $20k...the lower the better.

My previous experience with boats: ericson 27, crown 27, bayliner 32 flybridge, beneteau 35s5.

I've been looking around and I could get an OK condition 32-35' sailboat for somewhere in the mid-high teens.

I could get a small sailboat, 27'er or so, with an outboard, in OK shape, for $5-6k maybe.

I could get a low 30' gas powerboat in OK shape for somewhere in the teens.

I am not at all experienced with fixing inboard engines. I like outboards because they're easy to replace and I can keep a spare on the dink. However, pretty much all the larger boats (more living space) have inboards.

A small sailboat has enough space for me but nowhere to shower and not much water tankage which means 1. I'll probably be single for a long time, and 2. I'd probably have to cut off my pony tail. Otherwise not so bad. I've been on month long camping trips and boating trips and am fine with a minimal approach.

Some 30 something foot powerboats have a ton of space. I looked at a carver 32' aft cabin and chris-craft catalina 35 that had lots of space. My worry is the gas required would be too expensive and blow my budget. At 1,000nm per year my gas budget would be about the same as my food budget...

A larger old sailboat would have better tankage and a shower, but honestly a lot don't have much more living space. The salon in say a pearson 35' or a Irwin 33' is about the same size as my ericson 27'. They just put pilot berths on the sides which would be OK for extra storage but don't add much living space. Also finding one with a newer engine in my price range is somewhat difficult. I don't want an old diesel or atomic 4 that's on the verge of a $10-15k replacement job.

Any input would be appreciated.

I just saw an Islander 30-2 that had been refitted with a yanmar and every goodie I could ever want for a bit over $8k and debating whether to put an offer down...

Thanks for any input that can be provided and sorry for rambling a bit.

[barnakiel]

If you are not going to cross oceans every day then I would think of a stinker.

If you want a romantic stinker, or one that can actually do some sailing in the right conditions, you may opt for a motor-sailer.

My idea of a fine coastal cruiser:

https://www.google.es/search?q=fishe...=492&gws_rd=cr

Cheers,
b.

[Panope]

What ever you get (power or sail) make sure that it has lots of BIG windows or you may go insane during the long winters while cooped up down below.

Steve

[jm21]

By stinker I take it you mean a powerboat with a more efficient hull and a small diesel? I agree that would be ideal but there are very few for sale in my area...very few in existence really in this area. And they tend to be fairly expensive.

A trawler might be a good option but all the ones I've seen have over-sized diesels that make their nautical miles per gallon not much better than a gas powered boat. Maybe 2-3mpg instead of 1-1.5mpg but nowhere near the 10-12 a smallish sailboat would get. And even a small old trawler is at the high end of my budget and might need a new engine soon.

[Hudson Force]

I can't help but think that sailboats are best suited for those that have an interest in sailing. Without that, I would strongly recommend the bigger box!

[jm21]

I enjoy sailing but it's not a deal-killer to me. No interest in racing. 4 hours of fun sailing every two weeks wouldn't really compensate for the lack of space vs. a powerboat, but combined with the much better fuel economy it does for me.

Though I went back and looked up trawlers in the area on yachtworld and there's a decent 34' trawler that claims to get better than 4nmpg for sale at a reasonable price....
1983 Permaglass 34 Flybridge Sedan Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by jm21

By stinker I take it you mean a powerboat with a more efficient hull and a small diesel? I agree that would be ideal but there are very few for sale in my area...very few in existence really in this area. And they tend to be fairly expensive.

A trawler might be a good option but all the ones I've seen have over-sized diesels that make their nautical miles per gallon not much better than a gas powered boat. Maybe 2-3mpg instead of 1-1.5mpg but nowhere near the 10-12 a smallish sailboat would get. And even a small old trawler is at the high end of my budget and might need a new engine soon.

For planning purposes... you could consider a small gasoline inboard or I/O powerboat will get more like about .5 MPG (not 1-1.5 MPG) if you run it on plane at the speeds the hull was designed for. Maybe .75 MPG if you get lucky.

THAT'S the comparison to diesel trawlers, which can indeed run at 2-3 MPG, even with much more mass. When you see a "trawler" advertised with "over-sized diesels" be aware that's sort of a newer thing, often twin screw boats made as a compromise between really displacement cruising and planing (and hence, usually called semi-displacement or some such). Yep, those aren't as economical as full displacement boats with a single diesel of appropriate size... although still usually much better than a gas boat or equivalent size.

Yes, diesel acquisition cost is higher... but the trade-offs can be worth it to some. There are some safety things: diesel isn't as volatile as gasoline, diesel gensets don't create as much CO as gasoline, etc. And a small old trawler with a diesel MIGHT need a new engine in the year 2050, assuming it has been well maintained and you keep up the maintenance regime. OTOH, it might also last 'til 2082...

Back to your point about size (space) versus gas versus sail... it's also generally true that gas boats aren't all that expensive (a relative term, in the grand scheme of things) to run if you don't go far, especially if you don't go anywhere fast.

If you're just going to bob around from inland or near coastal place to place with no particular schedule in mind, you can wait out weather, etc.... then you can usually run a gas boat at hull speed (just above idle) for not so much $$. The hull form in a planing boat isn't always comfortable in all sea states, but you can often manage that with flexible movements, pick your travel windows with hull form/sea states in mind...

-Chris

[jm21]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

For planning purposes... you could consider a small gasoline inboard or I/O powerboat will get more like about .5 MPG (not 1-1.5 MPG) if you run it on plane at the speeds the hull was designed for. Maybe .75 MPG if you get lucky.

THAT'S the comparison to diesel trawlers, which can indeed run at 2-3 MPG, even with much more mass. When you see a "trawler" advertised with "over-sized diesels" be aware that's sort of a newer thing, often twin screw boats made as a compromise between really displacement cruising and planing (and hence, usually called semi-displacement or some such). Yep, those aren't as economical as full displacement boats with a single diesel of appropriate size... although still usually much better than a gas boat or equivalent size.

Yes, diesel acquisition cost is higher... but the trade-offs can be worth it to some. There are some safety things: diesel isn't as volatile as gasoline, diesel gensets don't create as much CO as gasoline, etc. And a small old trawler with a diesel MIGHT need a new engine in the year 2050, assuming it has been well maintained and you keep up the maintenance regime. OTOH, it might also last 'til 2082...

Back to your point about size (space) versus gas versus sail... it's also generally true that gas boats aren't all that expensive (a relative term, in the grand scheme of things) to run if you don't go far, especially if you don't go anywhere fast.

If you're just going to bob around from inland or near coastal place to place with no particular schedule in mind, you can wait out weather, etc.... then you can usually run a gas boat at hull speed (just above idle) for not so much $$. The hull form in a planing boat isn't always comfortable in all sea states, but you can often manage that with flexible movements, pick your travel windows with hull form/sea states in mind...

-Chris

From what I'd read (no personal experience) it looked like a powerboat with twin gas engines (let's say twin 350s) still didn't get very good mileage at displacement speeds. Sounded like maybe you could eke out 1.5nmpg if you were lucky and really trying at it, ran it on one screw, and so forth. But seems like you would put a huge number of hours on the engines doing that which would either completely kill the resale-ability of the boat or hurt the engines (?).

My thinking is that if I'm on a limited monthly budget and have to travel a decent amount just to fill up on fuel/water/groceries, I probably need at least 3nmpg to do it...

I guess one alternative would be to buy a gas-sucking "mothership" of sorts and have an extremely large "dinghy" to go in and fetch stuff with...maybe a little runabout or center console...but then you've got two boats to maintain....

[markpierce]

My 14-ton, 35-foot motorboat gets 3+ miles per gallon at 6.3 knots with an 80-horsepower John Deere diesel.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by markpierce

My 14-ton, 35-foot motorboat gets 3+ miles per gallon at 6.3 knots with an 80-horsepower John Deere diesel.

And that is sort of the astonishing thing, my little 21" CC with a 175 HP four stroke will get about 7 MPG at just off idle (6 kts) and best MPG on plane is at 18 Kts and is about 1.8 MPG , but of course it weighs maybe a couple of tons at most? Smaller single Diesels in good displacement hulls return much better fuel consumption than any planing hull gas boat of a similar size can by a wide margin. Proper tool for the job

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by jm21

By stinker I take it you mean a powerboat with a more efficient hull and a small diesel? I agree that would be ideal but there are very few for sale in my area...very few in existence really in this area. And they tend to be fairly expensive.

A trawler might be a good option but all the ones I've seen have over-sized diesels that make their nautical miles per gallon not much better than a gas powered boat. Maybe 2-3mpg instead of 1-1.5mpg but nowhere near the 10-12 a smallish sailboat would get. And even a small old trawler is at the high end of my budget and might need a new engine soon.

Yep. Power boat. Most of the time they offer more volume for same LOA and thus make for a better live aboard space.

An oversize engine, like on a working boat, will gulp fuel.

Boats like I g oogled (linked above) come in sizes generally 25' and upwards. And if you get one below 20k then you may have some homework to do before you go sailing; but if the hull and engine are sound then you are already half way there.

b.

[Capt Phil]

Other than the romance (which wears off!) of living aboard a sailboat, if you are in the PNW winds are fluky if they blow at all. I would be inclined towards an older Chrissy with a single gas engine. Roomy, cheap to buy and run, you can do your own mantenance fairly easily. I've lived aboard an Ingrid 38, a Transpac 49 and a DeFever 54, all for at least 5-8 years each and must say that the DeFever was the most comfortable, seaworthy vessel I ever had. Did miss the sailing, though.
There are (or used to be) many spots to drop the hook for weeks at a time and easy provisioning from the lower Straits of Georgia all the way to Alaska.
You're in the finest cruising area in the world IMO so take advantage of it! Phil

[svseachange]

Any boat your spouse loves AND you can afford easily the best boat. Only buy a stink-boat if you don't plan on going anywhere or have deep pockets for fuel money.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

... Only buy a stink-boat if you don't plan on going anywhere or have deep pockets for fuel money.

Sail replacement and re-rigging don't require deep pockets? Auxiliary sailboats still require periodic engine maintenance. Most all boats just sit at a marina most/all the time. Sailboats often run their engines rather than put up sails when they are boating, especially in the PNW.. ... Soon after purchasing my motorboat, my sister offered to fill its fuel tanks for my birthday. I told her that would be too generous since that would cost about $1200. That would have been good for about 1000 to 1200 miles, however.

[svseachange]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Sail replacement and re-rigging don't require deep pockets?

I hear many stories from power boat liveaboards I meet along the way who feel stuck because they do not feel like they can afford the fuel to move where they want. I hear far fewer of these stories from people living aboard sailboats.

By their nature powerboats seem to be built with big energy requirements. Energy is so expensive these days. Just the other day we were parked next to a nice cruising powerboat at a free dock and the operator felt the need to rum his genny most of the time his main engine was turned off to meet his living system requirements. He told me his genny was a similar size to our inboard. Sailboats are built with low energy consumption and efficiency in mind for all systems and so are cheaper to run on a long term, day-to-day basis.

Noting wrong with power boats, I have owned my share and I would argue they make better liveaboards... if you do not plan in going long distances. They do seem more popular in the PNW maybe that probably speaks to their suitability for the local conditions. Iffy winds and a lot of current would favor a powerboat.