Seeking Advice on an Older Boat Purchase

[RainDog89]

First and foremost I'd like to thank you for having me here on your forum! I've found this forum to be an excellent source of information and decided to finally join up.

I'm writing because my wife and I have decided that we'd like to get into sailing, but the shear amount of things we need to learn seem astronomical. To begin we've been doing the best we can to educate ourselves with resources such as this forum, and a guide titled Your First Sailboat by Daniel Spurr. We also have the Boat Maintenance Bible on order, but have not received it yet. If anyone has any must read titles, I'd appreciate any recommendations!

A little bit about us. We are a young couple in our early 30's and do not have any children. Although my wife doesn't have any experience on the water, I grew up in a coastal community. I spent my weekends growing up fishing with my father on his 25' Grady. I also took some sailing lessons, although that was almost 15 years ago. Additionally I've completed a boaters safety course. In college I worked as a commercial fisherman as a set-netter. Although I have some salt water experience, almost none of it has been on sailboats. I don't have any mechanical experience or knowledge, although i'm willing to learn. We both intend to take sailing lessons this summer.

Our goal is to find a boat that we can weekend on, and either day sail or do some coastal cruising around Long Island Sound. My budget is $25,000 to cover a boat purchase and all of our first year expenses, and would like to avoid financing. Additionally, I'm over 6' tall and therefore am hoping to purchase something I can stand upright in when below. I really like the look of the 80's Catalina 30, which seems to be in my budget and from what I have read is a forgiving beginner friendly vessel.

Almost all of the Cat 30s I've looked at are equipped with 30 year old Universal M25 engines. Not knowing they're service history, how hard they've been run, or how well they've been maintained, I'm reasonably worried about them. Does anyone have any advice on what to look for when viewing these boats? The M25 is out of production, how readily available are parts? I understand that a well maintained diesel engine will run a very long time. How concerned should I really be? I understand replacing an engine can easily run in the tens of thousands, something i'd like to avoid.

Does anyone have any tips on shopping for these boats? We are not in a giant rush and are willing to take our time to find the right boat. Also, anything I plan to purchase I will be sure to have professionally surveyed.

Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-RD

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard raindog! There is a lot to unpack there, but your query is a common one, but I think the solution is not always the same. I hear you want something fairly big right off the bat, and ok we can direct you there. My first idea is don't spend your money yet! And don't shoot for a larger boat until you are sure of what you are getting into and how much you will enjoy it. The Catalina 30 is a good choice. It is common and will have good resale value. It is a responsive boat, a good one to learn to sail on too. You are right to focus on the engine first. The cost of replacing an inboard will get your attention! Rigging, sails and keel bolts would be my next points of focus. BUT I'd back up for a minute. The part about there is so much to learn. Yes, it can seem daunting if you feel like you have to jump in with both feet at once. When I learned I started out in El Toros, then Lasers and Capris, small simple boats that were also really easy and FUN to sail. You'd be amazed how much and how fast you learn when you are zipping along by just pulling on a big piece of cloth! Little boats teach you everything quickly because they respond immediately. And everything you learn on a little boat translates on up to clipper ships. I'd keep dreaming looking into the bigger boats but in the meantime either join a club, or get a couple of little boats (yeah two) so that you and your wife can learn together and have fun sailing together and racing each other! If you both get hooked on the fun of it, all the other stuff of what to learn and which boat to get will fall into place.
If you are determined to go big right out of the block, that's ok if both you and your wife are really up for it. Remember it is a buyer's market out there and only spend half your budget on the boat itself and save the rest. And don't spend more than you are willing to lose.

[RainDog89]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Welcome aboard raindog! There is a lot to unpack there, but your query is a common one, but I think the solution is not always the same. I hear you want something fairly big right off the bat, and ok we can direct you there. My first idea is don't spend your money yet! And don't shoot for a larger boat until you are sure of what you are getting into and how much you will enjoy it. The Catalina 30 is a good choice. It is common and will have good resale value. It is a responsive boat, a good one to learn to sail on too. You are right to focus on the engine first. The cost of replacing an inboard will get your attention! Rigging, sails and keel bolts would be my next points of focus. BUT I'd back up for a minute. The part about there is so much to learn. Yes, it can seem daunting if you feel like you have to jump in with both feet at once. When I learned I started out in El Toros, then Lasers and Capris, small simple boats that were also really easy and FUN to sail. You'd be amazed how much and how fast you learn when you are zipping along by just pulling on a big piece of cloth! Little boats teach you everything quickly because they respond immediately. And everything you learn on a little boat translates on up to clipper ships. I'd keep dreaming looking into the bigger boats but in the meantime either join a club, or get a couple of little boats (yeah two) so that you and your wife can learn together and have fun sailing together and racing each other! If you both get hooked on the fun of it, all the other stuff of what to learn and which boat to get will fall into place.
If you are determined to go big right out of the block, that's ok if both you and your wife are really up for it. Remember it is a buyer's market out there and only spend half your budget on the boat itself and save the rest. And don't spend more than you are willing to lose.

Thanks for the welcome and the advice! Fortunately we have a friend with a boat this size who has offered to take us out this summer. We'll definitely be taking him up on his offer before making any kind of investment. We live a good 45 mins from the water so at least having a cabin is a big part of our plan to make this possible. We intend to go down the night before sailing and sleep on the boat. I only became interested in the 30'er after viewing some 25's and finding that I just didn't fit.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by RainDog89

Thanks for the welcome and the advice! Fortunately we have a friend with a boat this size who has offered to take us out this summer. We'll definitely be taking him up on his offer before making any kind of investment. We live a good 45 mins from the water so at least having a cabin is a big part of our plan to make this possible. We intend to go down the night before sailing and sleep on the boat. I only became interested in the 30'er after viewing some 25's and finding that I just didn't fit.

Ah, ok, so you are looking for a good boat to learn on that has over 6' headroom. Hmmm, I think there are threads on that subject you might find in the search function. I'd look for you but I gotta log out now!

[Chotu]

I’d say you actually have more figured out than you give yourself credit for.

The Catalina 30 would be a fine boat to get, though some sailing with your friend may be in order to make sure you don’t break stuff on the Catalina at the first thunderstorm that rolls by.

To keep it fun, you’ll want to know when/how to reduce sail area and treat the rig gently (no uncontrolled gybes , no winching in the furler because you have overpowered it, etc)

Diesel engine, I’ve never seen one go before. Ever. They’re going to need plenty of preventative maintenance but if they are running ok when you buy it they aren’t likely to explode randomly. When Diesel engines quit its usually just a fuel issue of one sort or another. Or maybe the starter.

Learning on some little club boats is a good idea because mistakes can be kind of expensive on the Catalina.

To evaluate the Diesel engine, feel it to make sure it’s cold and do a cold start. Then take it out and run it at too speed for a bit. That will shake any issues out for you to see. Watch the temperature and stuff. Listen to the engine.

[LittleWing77]

Here's a great resource:
Inspecting the Aging Sailboat
by Don Casey
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sea...Sailboat&isbn=

Amazon wants $129 for it (it's out of print) but at least abebooks still has copies for $14 bucks.

Catalinas (look at the 25 and 27 too) will probably do fine as a starter boat, as Don says. He is very seasoned and would never steer anyone wrong - or away from sailing.

There IS a lot to learn, but you've started off well - keep going!

Warmly,
LittleWing77

[hpeer]

Stupider things have been done. My first sailboat was a steel 33’er and after 2 hours instruction from the PO I headed out up the Nova Scotia coast, solo. Some of us are just like that.

12 years ago, I’m still learning.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Stupider things have been done. My first sailboat was a steel 33’er and after 2 hours instruction from the PO I headed out up the Nova Scotia coast, solo. Some of us are just like that.

12 years ago, I’m still learning.

Wow, very interesting!

[rmesfo]

Welcome,

The first thing I would advise is both of you take a sailing course to get at least a cruising certification. You will enjoy it, really know that is what you want to do and become familiar with the sailboats and the area.

Someone said to shop around and I second that. I am in the SF Bay area and
started out looking at 34 to 36 ft boats but finally ended up with a Pearson 303.
It took a couple of years but I certainly found the right boat for me.

Good luck, you will have a great time!

[Hudson Force]

RainDog89,
I started sailing in 1958 with very little knowledge and continued until my wife's health took us off the boat in 2017. During all those years we never had a problem that we couldn't solve, but I never stopped learning and never stopped relying on those that knew more than me concerning any problem.
Welcome to the community. We have a cruising friend who has lived on his same Catalina 30 for over thirty years and he didn't buy it new. Our last boat was 12 years old when we bought it and we kept it for 32 years. I think you're making a wise choice.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Stupider things have been done. My first sailboat was a steel 33’er and after 2 hours instruction from the PO I headed out up the Nova Scotia coast, solo. Some of us are just like that.
12 years ago, I’m still learning.

My experience exactly 13 years ago except in a 36 footer. Some of us are just crazy enough to do things like that I guess.
My sailing education actually began in my 20s when I realized that I wanted to become a sailor. I read everything that I could get my hands on and took a basic sailing class. I finally retired at Age 62 with enough money to buy the boat and enough time to go sailing.
I thought that with all my reading that I knew everything I needed to know. I quickly learned otherwise and I’m still learning also!

Al, S/V Finlandia

[GWilly]

Welcome aboard, Raindog. As a power boater with TWO Diesel engines, I’d advise you to get an engine survey when you’ve found ‘the’ boat. You’ll undoubtedly get the more general survey of the boat by a qualified surveyor but I’d strongly suggest a specific survey for the engine. They’re available. Just as boats get varying amount of care and maintenance, so do engines. Quite often that’s where owners go cheap. Preventative maintenance cannot be urged strongly enough. Why? Because diesel repairs down the road can be ridiculously expensive, assuming you can find a mechanic you can trust. You also need to make sure it’s been run an appropriate amount. I made the mistake of buying a boat with very low engine hours, thinking it’s like finding the dream car with low miles. Wrong! The boat sat a lot, the seals and hoses in the engine dried, cracked, and in year 3 I had to do a repower. With a power boat the rule of thumb is 100 hours/year, but probably more variable with sailboat engines. Other than these aspects, diesels are great. Really. Good luck, and welcome to the club!

[Cpt Mark]

6' headroom. You might look at the Hunters. They ALL have that much headroom as the owner of the co is over 6' and mandates it.

I like the build quality of a Catalina a little better but the hunters are also mass produced, known quantity and a bit cheaper. This isn't going to be your forever boat most likely.

Get a good survey on it and have your experienced friend with you on the seat trial.

Engine. If it starts right up when it's cold, doesn't blow a ton of smoke after a few minutes, isn't leaking anything you're probably good to go. While running under power is it shaking a lot? Not good. Also feel all the hoses in the boat. Are they soft supple rubber or is the rubber hard as a rock? Hard hoses need to be replaced which is time consuming and the hoses aren't cheap. If it's the white plastic sanitation hose check the lowest point where fluid would collect and see if it's weeping out or smelly.

[skipmac]

A great book to get for learning and as a reference for all things boat the best in my opinion is Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual by Nigel Calder. A lot of the book will be beyond your current level of need or comprehension but you will find yourself referring to it over and over as you expand the parts of the boat you work on. I actually have two copies, one for the boat and one to keep at home.

Also the Catalina 30 is a great boat to learn on. Very roomy, very forgiving and if you buy right you can get most of the purchase price back when you want to sell and move up. However as others mentioned, inspect the expensive items well before buying. Roughly in order of cost to repair or replace:

- Engine
- Hull and deck structure. Look for leaks and delamination in the deck around fittings. Minor problems you can fix yourself but serious, widespread wet core is a big problem.
- Sails and rigging. How old is the rig, how much life left in the sails?

Then check all the gear on board: anchors and rode, sheets and halyards, pumps, heads, winches, etc. Add up the cost to repair/replace each and look at the budget.

[Pizzazz]

My advice is to get a Hunter (the 31’ model from the 80’s is particularly successful. Buying an older boat is all about condition and maintenance. Hunters have great headroom (I am 6’2”) and also long enough berths (if you want to sleep on the boat overnight). In terms of running costs, you have the slip fee, bottom paint and biweekly cleaning. Some of the big items are engine, drivetrain and whatever you break until you learn your way with the boat.

I would invest $12-15K in the purchase, $2-3K in initial outfitting and the rest for upkeep and slip fees. Whatever you decide to do, go slowly and do not change things initially. The prior owner probably new more about sailing than you and did things for a reason. Try to carry on the tradition of the loving prior owner. Where are you located?