Returning a New Boat

[Coops]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

Unfortunately Cruisers Forum are pussies when it comes to naming names, which is silly when web sites like Angie's List make a living off it, but it is what it is.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how things work out.

Not unfortunate,or "pussy", just good sense. If you would like to pay their litigation costs for them i am sure that they would allow you to name names. This "no naming" is common on all the forums that i am on, not all are sailing orientated, because somebody owns the forum, somebody pays the bills and that someone has the right to protect himself against losing everything because of a person having a grudge, rightly or wrongly, against another person or company. Sure, we would all like to shame and tell, we would all like to know who the bad eggs are, but unless it is our money at stake, we have no right to demand it to happen.

Coops.

[Wondering Star]

You may have done this already to better document the problems. However, if you have not, I wonder if you would consider finding a respected (i.e. respected is the key) vessel surveyor to give your new boat a full go about to complete the discovery process of possible issues as well as post repair check-up. I have experienced my friends difficulties step by step and this is what they both had to do to clarify and justify documenting the problems for the builder, insurance, dealer and Etc. One has resolved all the issues (It took over a year). The other is still experiencing issues and continuing to work toward a better resolution with the builder and the dealer.

I may have missed it, but did not read anyone recommending that even new boats should receive a complete survey? Although, I have not personally experience the joy and sadness of a new boat purchase as yet. As stated above, I have experienced my friends headaches with them step by step more than once with a new boat purchase. (Two new purchase experience by my friends) I gained an invaluable education. If and when I am financially comfortable enough to consider purchasing a new boat, I will hopefully begin early to prepare for the potentials that could and has greatly disappointed some new boat buyers. If I have the choice, I would like to add a clause to the purchase contract stating that the final (? %) is paid on satisfied survey on delivery/ post commissioning. The survey will come out of my pocket, but I would feel more comfortable.

Hope your issues will soon pass and the better days ahead will help you forget the pains of your present difficulties.

Cheers

[hellosailor]

According to web cites of newspaper articles, the new group onl bought the ASSETS of Hunter (of Morgan, etc. including Hunter) and not the liabilities. If the dealer delivered the boat knowing Hunter was already gone, and that the warranty no longer existed, there might be an action against the dealer.

But in terms of recovering from the new company, or Hunter? Unlikely, there's no one at Hunter, and the new company did not buy the liabilties, they're not obligated to anything. Depending on the timing and details--the dealer might be the only one to recover against.

[rognvald]

Gregg,
In all fairness, you state that you "had to pay for my boat to be moved . . .due to my lack of experience." How do you reconcile that with a later statement when you remarked . . . "I'm us sailing certified, a joint pilot engineer master for new your state, public vessel certified, own other power vessels in the 40 and 50 foot range for my business. All this to say, I know boats in and out. I don't believe it's my inexperience in the field, and going from all those to a hunter 33 . . . "
Any reasonable person would certainly find those remarks contradictory. A person with that much experience in boats especially one who "knows boats in and out" wouldn't have to hire a captain to explain the boat systems and move the vessel from point A to B. Can you explain this apparent contradiction? Thanks.

[chef2sail]

Glad to see your later posts. Good to hear that some of the issues were resolved. Good you went the route with the professional captain. I am glad to hear that this hasnt deterred you. Just that the frustration got the better of you at one point. It happens to all of us

I am lucky that we have a very tight knit sailing community in our club where we all are willing to help and lend our expertise to each other. Its how I started learning 40 years ago. I am a great beleiver that in the beginning when learning a sailboat its beeter to hook up in a marinia or club which has other sailors to discuss issues with as well as join in the camradiere. You dont get that on a mooring. Sharing ideas and common experiences is one of the good things abouts forums like Cruisers Forum. When you have experienced sailing friends or networking the need to get a professional captain may be lessened. Then you can pay it back some day by helping other new sailors.

Hold Hunter to the fire methodically and calmly to fix the issues which are warenteed. Be there when they do it if possible for a learning experience as well as quality control to be satisfied. Some day you will be presented with similar issues when you are not under warentee. You can always pay someone to fix them ( well not always) or you canlearn to do most of the stuff yourself.

Go forward and enjoy your boat when she is sailable. There is nothing quite like a good sail to clear the head.

Dave

[Ex-Calif]

It occurred to me while reading this thread that there is a dearth of "customer" satisfaction data available on boat buying when compared to automobiles.

It is hard to figure out who makes quality yachts. Then it occurred to me that the charterers (Sunsail) have a big stake in getting quality and reliable boats.

So I went to Sunsail's site to see what boats they have. Of course they have Hunters but it appears all their new monos are either Jeanneau or Benneteau. It also looks like they carry a fair amount of swing weight with J & B as they even have Sunsail "models" of J & B boats.

With 800 yachts in the fleet scattered all around the world their buying practices may be telling.

I personally really like the J and B boats for coastal cruising.

[sailorboy1]

You don't think that has more to do with the charter's making a stronger deal with those builders?

Because if a builder had a big customer buying a lot of boats from them they would be sure to get them more attention regardless.

I think a better yardstick for whether a builder is doing a good job with customer satisfaction is the the number who are repeat buyers.

[DeepFrz]

Would you tell us what the issues were that you solved today?

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Aloha and I hope it all turns out good for you.

I feel that you really got ripped off on this one and I don't think any of our members should criticize you for having that experience.

I've been ripped off plenty of times in small transactions by unscrupulous people. Its always a lesson but it wasn't to that much a degree that you have and I hope it never happens to you again.

kind regards,

Much appreciated. I honestly can say that I've learned my lesson already and will definitely do my homework on where and what my next purchase is . Hopefully my wife will allow it after this dilemma. I think it'll turn out for the best, trying to keep things positive..

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Gregg,
In all fairness, you state that you "had to pay for my boat to be moved . . .due to my lack of experience." How do you reconcile that with a later statement when you remarked . . . "I'm us sailing certified, a joint pilot engineer master for new your state, public vessel certified, own other power vessels in the 40 and 50 foot range for my business. All this to say, I know boats in and out. I don't believe it's my inexperience in the field, and going from all those to a hunter 33 . . . "
Any reasonable person would certainly find those remarks contradictory. A person with that much experience in boats especially one who "knows boats in and out" wouldn't have to hire a captain to explain the boat systems and move the vessel from point A to B. Can you explain this apparent contradiction? Thanks.

I typed almost this entire post on sailboatowners.com before they removed your rant.

One thing I added was to request a specific list of everything that's gone wrong, which I still don't see.

I still fail to understand your discussion about a backwards ratchet on your mainsail furling system.

One of the thoughts I've had in reading this thread has been one of "communications" and I understand you have said that is what you have been doing.

A copy of what you've sent would be helpful for those of us trying to help you, but the lack of specificity is disturbing, as is the answer to this quote.

For example: your oil leak. Did someone forget to put in a plug or did you have major engine issues? It really makes a difference in being able to evaluate the concerns you expressed.

Good luck.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Gregg,
In all fairness, you state that you "had to pay for my boat to be moved . . .due to my lack of experience." How do you reconcile that with a later statement when you remarked . . . "I'm us sailing certified, a joint pilot engineer master for new your state, public vessel certified, own other power vessels in the 40 and 50 foot range for my business. All this to say, I know boats in and out. I don't believe it's my inexperience in the field, and going from all those to a hunter 33 . . . "
Any reasonable person would certainly find those remarks contradictory. A person with that much experience in boats especially one who "knows boats in and out" wouldn't have to hire a captain to explain the boat systems and move the vessel from point A to B. Can you explain this apparent contradiction? Thanks.

I absolutely can explain. Boats I know no problem, what I don't know is specific waterways, inlets, local knowledge and experience with this particular boat. Any boat buyer needs a tutorial, how else would you learn the systems specific to that craft. When you buy a car, don't they show you where everything is? Imagine driving automatic your whole life, you know cars just not all of them. One day you decide to spend a little and purchase a Ferrari in manual. Are you seriously just going to get into it with no knowledge of how to operate it correctly and drive off? Ridiculous!

This trip in question was from bay shore, ny to new Rochelle, ny. This required sailing through the fire island inlet which is at times too shallow for my draft. Plus can have very dangerous tidal rip conditions. Then going off the coast until staten island before going up the east river, which is also another spot of worry for me.

My boating experience is on outboard ferry boats on inland lakes of the adirondack region. I am certified for my business to drive passengers across the lake to our locations. This makes me knowledgeable on vessels, but not all vessels in all conditions.

Taking a new purchase through all described above without any knowledge of the waters or experience with the boat in question is downright stupid, for even a professional. You want to get killed and loose your boat on stupidity be my guest, but I'm smarter than that..

[Stu Jackson]

What was the "hurry"?

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

You don't think that has more to do with the charter's making a stronger deal with those builders?

Because if a builder had a big customer buying a lot of boats from them they would be sure to get them more attention regardless.

I think a better yardstick for whether a builder is doing a good job with customer satisfaction is the the number who are repeat buyers.

Certainly the "deal" they get is directly related to their buying power. But isn't Sunsail the ultimate repeat buyer?

It isn't just price. To run a successful charter business Sunsail needs the whole package.

- A boat the charterer wants
- A boat that is reasonably priced so the numbers work
- A boat that is fairly reliable so the numbers work and downtime is minimized
- A boat that works out of the box and doesn't need 6 months of refit to put into service
- A company that is financially sound and won't likely be in bankruptcy in the next 5 years

In regards to repeat buyers I get your point. However the other side is owners that keep their boats rather than trade out or trade up.

I am not slagging Hunters I am just saying there is a lack of real data on new boat satisfaction - primarily because the volume is so small.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I typed almost this entire post on sailboatowners.com before they removed your rant.

One thing I added was to request a specific list of everything that's gone wrong, which I still don't see.

I still fail to understand your discussion about a backwards ratchet on your mainsail furling system.

One of the thoughts I've had in reading this thread has been one of "communications" and I understand you have said that is what you have been doing.

A copy of what you've sent would be helpful for those of us trying to help you, but the lack of specificity is disturbing, as is the answer to this quote.

For example: your oil leak. Did someone forget to put in a plug or did you have major engine issues? It really makes a difference in being able to evaluate the concerns you expressed.

Good luck.

If you visit my profile of sailboat owners.com you'll see all my posts from day one regarding my issues including the most recent mishap with a backwards ratchet.

[GreggL]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Would you tell us what the issues were that you solved today?

Yes indeed, the biggest problem with a backwards furled main was solved. The dealership furled in around the wrong direction causing a reefer main to unfurl and loose all control of the sail.

The continuous line on the roller furling is in the process of being repaired as well.

Smaller less dangerous items are being worked as well.

From an outside perspective, The major more worrisome problems are behind me, I hope!