How do I escape the Great Lakes in Sept?

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Sinbad51

I priced having a 38 footer trucked from jacksonville Florida to Detroit and it was over 10 grand.

The cost of trucking is largely a function of the route a truck needs to take, and that's determined by the height of the load and what roads are available given bridge and power line clearance. It's also a function of finding a trucker who's looking for a load to fill a slot. A guy in Detroit who needs to pick up a boat in Annapolis is going to give you a good deal on a boat going from Cleveland to Baltimore, MD.

I know a couple that routinely have their 42' Valiant shipped from Cleveland to Deale, MD for $2,500. Of course that does not include rigging and hauling and splashing, of course. Point is, don't dismiss it out of hand until you've talked to a number of haulers and are flexible in terms of timing.

[Sinbad51]

Rolf
My pllan was similar to yours. I delivered boat with friends to Annapolis and my wife flew in to enjoy the show,then flew home. We continued down to Ft Lauderdale and at that point she rejoined me and we spent the next 6 months cruising the islands. The two of us took our time returning and doing the canal together at a slower pace than the trip down.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Rolfe,
You have had some excellent advice by the above contributors on your options to head South. It is up to you and your wife to decide which route is preferable. However, a couple concerns that you should consider are:
1.) Beginning in late August, the autumnal winds begin to blow with greater intensity and frequency. They continue to strengthen significantly in September and by October can be quite fierce with 30k winds being common for extended periods and sea states 6-10 feet plus. These are not the gentle rollers of the North Atlantic but cold, short, steeply faced breakers that challenge even the most experienced sailors. The weather becomes quite cold on the lakes and weather windows are short and changeable.
2.)In addition to weather concerns, you have serious structural issues with your bulkheads. Even with a keel stepped mast, the torsional stresses and point loading created in lumpy seas can be quite significant and may further damage and/or endanger yourself and your boat.
3.) Is your wife a tested sailor? Can she handle your boat in a worst case scenario? Is she willing to take advantage of weather windows and sail for days . . . weather permitting? What is her take on this adventure?
4.) Since this is a difficult time to sail the Great Lakes, why not move your boat East(as others have suggested) during the late Spring/Early Summer and transit the Canal in early Fall? The St. Lawrence involves some serious sailing and adds additional miles/time and unless you're willing to spend some days offshore you'll never make your goal. And, although some have suggested Ole Miss, it is a dirty, debris filled, current riddled river with shifting sandbars and much barge traffic. However, the duck hunting is great and you could kill a few fat mallards for duck l'orange while quaffing Dom Perignon.
Your journey is a serious one and you should have the cards stacked in your favor before leaving. And with a good Nordic name as Rolfe --"the Wolf" with the blood of the Vikings running in your veins, you know you will be protected by Aegir, god of the sea, . . . . although, you might have to have a few more bottles of Dom around to be certain he is pleased. Good luck, good sailing, bror Viking. Rognvald

Clarification on the river route. Most folks only take a short stretch of the Mississippi from just north of St. Louis to the Ohio River.

Then they go up the Ohio to the Tenn and use the Tenn-Tom to get to Mobile bypassing the bulk of the Mississippi.

A great trip and typically the spring floods are long gone by fall. Yes, there is barge traffic and it must be respected but not something to fear.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Just throw it on a truck and have it delivered to Boston for $2,500. Seriously.

That's a darn good deal there. A few years back we trucked from Nashville to Detroit and it was around $5k plus prep work.

We shopped around and compared similar experiences with others who had trucked. No one was anywhere close to $2.5k for such a trip even going opposite the popular direction and filling an otherwise empty truck. Not saying it couldn't happen but I would be very leary of someone saying they could truck it for that price and I certainly wouldn't count on it.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Clarification on the river route. Most folks only take a short stretch of the Mississippi from just north of St. Louis to the Ohio River.

Then they go up the Ohio to the Tenn and use the Tenn-Tom to get to Mobile bypassing the bulk of the Mississippi.

A great trip and typically the spring floods are long gone by fall. Yes, there is barge traffic and it must be respected but not something to fear.

Valhalla,
I have spent a great deal of time on big rivers. My personal opinion is that they are no place for a sailboat. I believe it is far safer and less anxiety to sail the Great Lakes-- then outside on the Atlantic to Florida and South. However, I also despise the intercoastal with the mind numbing bridges, traffic, rude and inexperienced boaters, and ceaseless, monotonous motoring. It would not work for me but, I tend to swim against the current in most things in my life.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Valhalla,
I have spent a great deal of time on big rivers. My personal opinion is that they are no place for a sailboat. I believe it is far safer and less anxiety to sail the Great Lakes-- then outside on the Atlantic to Florida and South. However, I also despise the intercoastal with the mind numbing bridges, traffic, rude and inexperienced boaters, and ceaseless, monotonous motoring. It would not work for me but, I tend to swim against the current in most things in my life.

If you are trying to sail the river system without a motor, that's probably true.

If you have a sailboat with a reliable engine (99.9% of modern crusing sailboats), it's no more risky (different but not more)

You call long open water passages less anxious, I call it boring. Once land is just a smudge on the horizon, there is nothing to see or do other than check the GPS position occasionally. I'd much rather see what is around the next bend and talk to the passing tow captains.

[janicew13]

We left the finger lakes a few years ago and used the Erie Canal. We carried the mast and found good places for putting he mast up in Catskills,NY. You'll need to check with them about your draft in order to be able to arrange it with working the tides. It is a beautiful trip down the Hudson. Good luck with your plans.
SV Tsamaya

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you are trying to sail the river system without a motor, that's probably true.

If you have a sailboat with a reliable engine (99.9% of modern crusing sailboats), it's no more risky (different but not more)

You call long open water passages less anxious, I call it boring. Once land is just a smudge on the horizon, there is nothing to see or do other than check the GPS position occasionally. I'd much rather see what is around the next bend and talk to the passing tow captains.

"It would not work for me but, I tend to swim against the current in most things in my life." Rognvald
Happy New Year, Valhalla

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by RolfP

So my main worries are 1) weather on the lakes and 2) timing, 3) Mast management. Thanks for ALL the very detailed replies, thank goodness I have some time to digest!

You've obviously thought about this a lot Rolf, and you know yourself. Definitely not how I would approach things, but Viva la Difference! Based on my experience on the Great Lakes I would say a departure from Superior (you don't say where) in September is a risk. But you know this if you've spent a decade travelling Superior. It depends on when the turn of the season happens. It goes from stable summer to more turbulent fall weather rather quickly. Sometimes it happens in late August. Other years it doesn't switch until late September. I've sailed Superior well into September some years, and it's been beautiful and easy. Other years the turn-of-season has come earlier, and its been hellish. I think you are taking a significant risk with a September departure.

I would leave earlier.

[River Cruiser]

I helped bring a boat down the Mississippi River from Red Wing, MN. to Louisiana, Mo. in October of 2013. Twin 6.354 perkins and 180 gallon fuel capacity, being unfamiliar with the boats appetite for fuel we would try to get fuel every other day. That time of years a lot of the marinas were either out or low on fuel in their tanks, we had a couple of spots that did call out a truck for us that made for a late morning start. If you go the rivers you won't be on the part of the Mississippi that we traveled but you may run into a similar situation on the Illinois River. Plan your fuel stops carefully if you have limited tankage with a short range. Once you reach the confluence there will be several choice for fuel, but that'll be the only chance for fuel till you get to Hoppie's about 60 - 70 miles. After Hoppie's it's 106 miles to Kidd City fuel, they have a 75 gallon minimum and are only open M-F if they are still open at all and I think they only have diesel. Then you have about 100 miles to the next fuel stop after you go thru Kentucky dam. If fuel isn't available at Kidd city which I've heard they're selling diesel again and I've heard that's just a rumor. Who knows what it'll be next year? Then you'll need to make over 200 miles to get fuel, a 1/4 of it against the current. Good luck


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[FamilyVan]

I wouldn't hesitate to do the trip to Oswego in September on a 38' sailboat. As far as 30 days go- it shouldn't be a problem.
Depending where you are on Superior, figure 2 or 3 days to the Sault.
1 day for the St Marie's.
2 or 3 days to Sarnia.
1 day to Leamington.
2 or 3 days to Port colbourne.
1 day through the welland.
2 days to Oswego.
4 days to Albany.
3 days to New York.
Something like that any way.
That's 19 days. Might have weather days on superior and Huron, but not on the rivers. Prevailing wind is at your back on Erie and Ontario. I've done all of the Lake trips discussed many times. I think it's totally doable.

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[RolfP]

Thanks FamilyVan!! I'm very psyched to do this trip, though I've been back and forth on the Oswego / Buffalo entrance to Erie, but its nice to hear from someone who has done it enough to have your solid opinion. It sure seems totally doable unless I keep getting socked in somewhere by nor'easters for days and days! In open water I'm pretty comfortable in heavy weather and the boat is too, so if the winds are right, I'll be happy for my month.

[Stu Jackson]

Rolf, sounds like you're making up some plans, which you need to do, of course.

In (almost) spite of your stated experience, I agree with Mike OReilly that it still sounds more like a delivery than a cruise. Of course, that's your call, your boat, your choice, but it is the ONE thing in these discussions that still concerns me (us?). It appears to me that your only reason for leaving in September is summer cruises with the family. If that's true, then I recommend that you seriously consider using those summer cruises to move the boat east.

The purpose is simple: take the BURDEN off rushing.

It also appears that your goal of Annapolis for the show the overriding feature of this schedule (insert the obvious here about boating and schedules). One thing to consider is: What happens if, for whatever reason, you can't make it to Annapolis even if your boat is already east of the canal? Would you leave the boat at a marina and drive to Annapolis? If so, consider that option at "the other end" of the canal, too.

Finding Erie Canal blogs shouldn't be hard, but here's one a friend of mine did:

Home Page

Scroll through and read his excellent descriptions of his Erie Canal trip, especially the mast steps.

Good luck, fair winds, safe journey.

[Dave Lochner]

Rolf,

At least for the Lake Ontario section, Nor Easters can occur but the dominant weather pattern is for westerlies. Any direction S of West will make for a quick relatively pleasant sail along the south shore of Lake Ontario. When fronts come through here in late summer early fall the winds blow from the west to NW. They can blow for several days and be pretty nasty. However, there are plenty of harbors, one about every 15 miles, from the Niagara River to Oswego that you can duck into.

The difficult part of your trip will be getting to Oswego by the first or second week in September. The "standard" snowbird plan is to leave Oswego on Labor Day, arrive in Annapolis on Columbus Day (boat show) and enter the ICW at Norfolk on Nov. 1, after insurance rates go down.

From mid August until mid September there is a steady stream of boats heading south through Oswego.

[CaptainBW]

We left west Lake Erie mid September, sailed overnight to Dunkirk NY. Went through the canal in 7days. Plenty of time but some cold nights. Need to be south of Chesapeake by end of October.

Have fun. Great trip!


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