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Old 01-01-2014, 16:22   #76
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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Wot Steve said!

I often wonder if the anti-Capitalism folks have any idea where money comes from.
Yeah the place where money comes from is called the Federal Reserve and they just print more of it anytime the US Taxpayer has to bailout Wallstreet.
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Old 01-01-2014, 16:59   #77
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How else do you propose that the forum's owners (yes, OWNERS) finance this forum that most people use for free? A damned bake sale? Seriously, stuff a sock in your cake hole to block the whining sound!
I think forums should have Ads and return a percentage to the posters actually. There are authors after all

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Old 01-01-2014, 18:17   #78
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

I think I need to say it how it is...

Isn't it called freeloading to use a product that costs someone else time and money without paying for it in some way?

It surprises me how many people think they are owed something for nothing, especially when it comes to products found on the internet that someone or many people have obviously put a lot of effort into providing for you.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the products that are advertised. And of course without the advertising you would not be reading this, unless you want to cough up $15, and I dont see a whole lot of Cruisers Forum Supporter icons around here.
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Old 01-01-2014, 18:27   #79
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Isn't it called freeloading to use a product that costs someone else money without paying for it in some way? It surprises me how many people think they are owed something for nothing, especially when it comes to products found on the internet.
I'm not really disagreeing, but the catch with this place is the people using it *is* the value. It's not like Quicken or some software product that is valuable just sitting there.

The only thing that makes this place more than an empty forum is user contributions, so I'm guessing some of the angst is about making money off the people who make the whole thing work in the first place.
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Old 01-01-2014, 18:55   #80
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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I'm not really disagreeing, but the catch with this place is the people using it *is* the value. It's not like Quicken or some software product that is valuable just sitting there.

The only thing that makes this place more than an empty forum is user contributions, so I'm guessing some of the angst is about making money off the people who make the whole thing work in the first place.
That seems to be a very short sighted view of what actually happens. Without some income from somewhere, this site(or any other) would not continue, unless of course people figure that somebody should throw time and money at something just to let other folks get somewhere free to communicate with each other.

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Old 01-01-2014, 19:01   #81
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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I think I need to say it how it is...

Isn't it called freeloading to use a product that costs someone else money without paying for it in some way? It surprises me how many people think they are owed something for nothing, especially when it comes to products found on the internet. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the products that are advertised. And of course without the advertising you would not be reading this, unless you want to cough up $15, and I dont see a whole lot of Cruisers Forum Supporter icons around here.

That's one point of view and you're fully entitled to it, however incomplete your argument may be.

Of course, your point that the costs of physically hosting the web site plus the usual incentives to the owners of the forum needs to be met has merit. No one is disputing that.

But then, lets not ever forget that there is one reason and one reason only that the owners of this forum are in a position to sell advertising. It is the verifiable traffic on the site, i.e. us, the cheapskate, canon fodder you so happily disdain.

Clearly, the traffic on this site is solely due to it's content which, recursively, is due to its its traffic. Truly, a self feeding perpetual motion, money making machine hey?

You are completely correct - It is entirely true that without advertising, I would not be reading this. Equally, without thousands like me who add content here, there would be no traffic and therefore no advertising. This is a symbiotic relationship - one which needs subtle finessing.
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Old 01-01-2014, 19:02   #82
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That seems to be a very short sighted view of what actually happens. Without some income from somewhere, this site(or any other) would not continue, unless of course people figure that somebody should throw time and money at something just to let other folks get somewhere free to communicate with each other.

Coops.
You mean like Facebook...
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Old 01-01-2014, 19:04   #83
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

Never been on facebook Boatie. Do I assume from that statement that there are no ads at all on there?

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Old 01-01-2014, 19:10   #84
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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I think I need to say it how it is...

Isn't it called freeloading to use a product that costs someone else time and money without paying for it in some way?
First off, WE are the thing that bring value to this place (and you, a mod, being more value than most). Without the contributors who, in some cases give way too much time and expertise to this place, CF would be valueless.

As for the righteousness of capitalism and the right to make a profit, I would remind all you youngins out there that there were public online communities long before there was private web-based forums and other commercial "social media" tools. BBSs, Usenet, listserves and other similar discussion online groups had been around for a lot longer, and they were almost completely free to the users. In fact, almost all were staunchly non-commercial spaces.

Just like with so many of our public places and resources, commercial forces have taken over and converted what was once a public good into a private interest. It is a trend all over the world. Public markets have given way to private malls, publicly owned and operated resources from water, roads, utilities and the airwaves have been transferred to private hands. So too with the Internet, and services on the Internet.

I'm not saying private interests are necessarily bad, nor are public operations necessarily good. What I am saying is that for-profit capitalism is not the only lens by which one can view the world. Believe it or not, there are other ways that have worked, and could work again.
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Old 01-01-2014, 19:10   #85
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Never been on facebook Boatie. Do I assume from that statement that there are no ads at all on there?

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Old 01-01-2014, 19:14   #86
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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It is the verifiable traffic on the site, i.e. us, the cheapskate, canon fodder you so happily disdain.
That is slightly an off target shot. He did not use those words and it is an assumption on your part that you are being treated with disdain at all, never mind happily.

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Old 01-01-2014, 19:33   #87
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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I think I need to say it how it is...

Isn't it called freeloading to use a product that costs someone else time and money without paying for it in some way?
A moderator should erase that. I enjoy this forum, but make no mistake, it is the freeloaders that contribute to the forum that makes this a success. Paying for servers is a calculated risk that they could "build it and they will come".

As was previously mentioned, symbiotic. Keep up the great work, mods, contributors and happy new year!
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Old 01-01-2014, 19:41   #88
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

I think were we make our mistake is to treat anyone with distan, wither it be the mods, the administrators or each other. I understand small business, and have no problems with people trying to get me to buy stuff. I learn here, I have friends here. Its kinda like meeting in a restaurant. Sure I have a good time with my friends. But I pay for the food and atmosphere. Here I get to learn and meet with friends. That is worth something I think.
If you think these guys (the ones that run the forum) are malignant you need to get down to a local pub or cafe. Try going in there just to shoot the breeze. In the US at least, if I don't at least order something to drink I am asked to leave.
I do agree that much of the value comes from the sailors. Perhaps the old salts (and mermaids) could have some kind of speciality status. But that is up to the owners. I will not go around telling others how to run their business. If I did I would never get to talk to the likes of boatie.
No, I am happy wasting time worrying about other things- like were that leak is coming from.
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Old 01-01-2014, 19:54   #89
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Re: Has The Cruisers Forum Sold Out?

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Clearly, the traffic on this site is solely due to it's content which, recursively, is due to its its traffic. Truly, a self feeding perpetual motion, money making machine hey?

You are completely correct - It is entirely true that without advertising, I would not be reading this. Equally, without thousands like me who add content here, there would be no traffic and therefore no advertising. This is a symbiotic relationship - one which needs subtle finessing.
I think some of you should consider all the changes to this site over the years…
They have made it easier and quicker for us to follow threads, research past solutions or try to help a fellow sailor.

I am sure all these technical user improvements have been at a substantial cost in time and money.

So personally I am very grateful to the CF team for keeping this site friendly, positive and still free to all

I am not sure whether some of these negative posts are tongue in cheek, serious or just recreational complaining…. but they do come off as being mean spirited.

Semantic games of symbiosis ignores the fact that the CF platform was created first and freely given to all who obey the rules. CF's growing success validates that the fairness of their management formula works

Those who prefer to criticize and draw blood (however subtly) seem more parasitic to me.
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Old 01-01-2014, 20:00   #90
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I will not go around telling others how to run their business. If I did I would never get to talk to the likes of boatie.
No, I am happy wasting time worrying about other things- like were that leak is coming from.
Thanks Newt..
Tho' should mention there's some on here who'd pay so they don't have too...
Hey.. there ya go.. 'Pay to Ignore List..'
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