do you use side lights or tricolor?

[Scope]

Originally Posted by pskudlarski

My boat is equipped with regular side navigation lights an a tricolor on the mast. What is better to use?

I know on eis allowed to use only on or the other, but I must admit that in bad weather I am really tempted to use both. My thinking is that it would be better to be seen and treated as something else (e.g. from port : two red lights one above another would look like a vessel out of control) than not seen at all.

Both on are better visible...More light, but confusing so not advised and on sea or inland water often illegal.
It like putting a third headlight on your car....but 3 light is reserved for trains so we can see the difference.

Many sailboats here carry the same set as you, two sets of lights.
one for sailing and one when motoring or motorsailing.

Under sail there is no power input and a tricolor uses a lot less power.
Visibility problems can also occur when you sail near a coastline or city lights in the background. But then you can always switch the the other system.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Nick,
I bought the Vesper 8000 package but have yet to connect to my Furuno 15 Navnet 15 TZTOUCH2.

Did you wire with the external alarm?

I'm about to ditch the Furuno... my n2k port was busted 2 years ago so I used an Actisense converter to get it going again but it's so slow and running Windows that I can't stand it any longer.

I now use it for radar only... with AIS targets on there it's tolerable. Chartplotter is now mostly my iPad with iSailor. I can even set my AP with that... even use dodge mode! Backup is laptop with OpenCPN that also works wireless.

I'm eying B&G 4G radar to be used on OpenCPN but may add a Vulcan 9" for the pretty SailSteer screen. Would also like engine monitoring but believe that requires the Simrad version. Probably will be using YachtDevices for their wifi gateway with apps for instrument displays etc. It never stops.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I'm eying B&G 4G radar to be used on OpenCPN but may add a Vulcan 9" for the pretty SailSteer screen. Would also like engine monitoring but believe that requires the Simrad version. Probably will be using YachtDevices for their wifi gateway with apps for instrument displays etc. It never stops.

Wow....for you Nick with your knowledge...its an addiction!

For me, its a bloody headache making sure they all are taking nice to each other and the correct device is on Top.

Not much professional advice in the Philippines

[Pete7]

So a question for the forum members who are using LEDs in navigation lights.

Did you just plonk an LED bulb in the existing light and hope for the best? Did you consider any light bleed outside the prescribed arcs?

After all, a filament light bulb for most nav lights has a vertical single wire filament and therefore the light casing will limit the light output to the correct arcs.

However, LED bulbs tend to be octagonal with multiple little LEDs and resemble a Dalek. So what stops some of the LEDs shining light past the arcs previously limited by the nav light case because there is now no one single source of light?

Annex I para 5 states:

On vessels of less than 20m in length the sidelights, if necessary to meet the requirements of section 9 of this annex, shall be fitted with inboard matt black screens. With a combined lantern, using a single vertical filament and a very narrow division between the green and red sections, external screens need not be fitted.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So a question for the forum members who are using LEDs in navigation lights.

Did you just plonk an LED bulb in the existing light and hope for the best? Did you consider any light bleed outside the prescribed arcs?

After all, a filament light bulb for most nav lights has a vertical single wire filament and therefore the light casing will limit the light output to the correct arcs.

However, LED bulbs tend to be octagonal with multiple little LEDs and resemble a Dalek. So what stops some of the LEDs shining light past the arcs previously limited by the nav light case because there is now no one single source of light?

Pete

Made an anchor light which was a great success, completely waterproof with high end LEDs. Not got round to replacing the nav lights yet but when that does happen it will be from scratch with just the components drawn up on cad with probably some little screens fitted to ensure the correct angles as per irpcs. Maybe not much point coastal but will be nice to have waterproof bright low power fittings offshore to have as a low power option should the masthead fail.

But very good point, and one that many would take onboard

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

So a question for the forum members who are using LEDs in navigation lights.

Did you just plonk an LED bulb in the existing light and hope for the best? Did you consider any light bleed outside the prescribed arcs?

After all, a filament light bulb for most nav lights has a vertical single wire filament and therefore the light casing will limit the light output to the correct arcs.

However, LED bulbs tend to be octagonal with multiple little LEDs and resemble a Dalek. So what stops some of the LEDs shining light past the arcs previously limited by the nav light case because there is now no one single source of light?

Annex I para 5 states:

On vessels of less than 20m in length the sidelights, if necessary to meet the requirements of section 9 of this annex, shall be fitted with inboard matt black screens. With a combined lantern, using a single vertical filament and a very narrow division between the green and red sections, external screens need not be fitted.

One issue is OPTICS. Nav light fixtures designed for incandescent bulbs have lenses focused on the place where the filament of an incandescent bulb is. So if you change the position of the light emitting element, you ruin the optics, and not only the viewing angles.


The other issue is COLOUR. The light spectrum from LEDs is different than from incandescents, and generally don't work satisfactorily through coloured lenses.


So it's better not to do this, or if you insist, at least do it only with the white fixtures.



Yet another issue is that those Chinese Bay15 size LED bulb units are of highly variable quality, and you might not be able to rely on them. Plus they will be more vulnerable to a little bit of moisture which inevitably gets through those incandescent fixtures, than a normal incandescent bulb.



LED fixtures are sealed -- no bulb to replace. It's really worthwhile chucking the old incandescent fittings in their entirety, and replacing them with proper LED fixtures.


Or if you don't want to do that, then I would just keep using the correct incandescent bulbs. At least then the nav lights will work properly.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...
The other issue is COLOUR. The light spectrum from LEDs is different than from incandescents, and generally don't work satisfactorily through coloured lenses.
....

So it's better not to do this, or if you insist, at least do it only with the white fixtures.


....

LED fixtures are sealed -- no bulb to replace. It's really worthwhile chucking the old incandescent fittings in their entirety, and replacing them with proper LED fixtures.

With just a little homework you can find high quality cree LEDs which fall within the irpcs specs and identical through a lens s incandescent to the naked eye. This doesn't show up that well in this gif but is either blueish white a white LED or green with a green LED, both cree 503. Shows why white is a bad idea behind a greed nav light designed for incandescent.



Means building your own which is probably way too big a step for most cruisers even though it's actually not that difficult to make a higher quality light for a fraction of the cost of many of the commercial offerings.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by conachair

. . .Means building your own which is probably way too big a step for most cruisers even though it's actually not that difficult to make a higher quality light for a fraction of the cost of many of the commercial offerings.

You might be able to roll your own electronics for less than the cost of a commercial LED nav light, but you're sure not going to roll your own optics and robust waterproof housing with any reasonable investment of time and money.


These are not expensive, and really nice:


https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands...ight-starboard


although I use the next bigger size up:


https://www.fisheriessupply.com/aqua...ousing-44200-7


Which are somewhat brighter and better focused, and are not so big that they can't be used on a fairly small boat.


If you're pinching pennies, then you could buy two genuine LED sidelights (or one combined lantern if you're set up like that) and put LED Bay-15 "bulbs" in your existing steaming and stern lights.


One tip about the Aqua Signal ones, and probably others -- they are really waterproof, but the Achille's Heel is the spade connector. If you sail hard like I do and bash the bow through waves, dunking the nav lights in sea water, these connectors will corrode. I used to have to remake them every year. Last time I potted them in epoxy.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You might be able to roll your own electronics for less than the cost of a commercial LED nav light, but you're sure not going to roll your own optics and robust waterproof housing with any reasonable investment of time and money.

Actually you can (done it with an anchor light which was a great success even if looked a bit agricultural) , the cree LEDs are designed for for outdoors, no optics required so it's not so hard get some plumbing pipe , drill holes for the LEDs and fill the whole lot with epoxy so 100% waterproof. Individual nav lights might need a little thought to get the cut off angles right but still not really rocket science. Mk2 anchor light is under way with linear regulator & auto on/off switch - PCBs & components coming out at less than $10 for 10 boards & delivery from https://jlcpcb.com/ plus about $0.20 each for the LEDs. It is possible, really not that difficult but no doubt far beyond the comfort zone of most.

[s/v Jedi]

I'm gonna bite the bullet and order new Hella Marine NaviLED lamps. They are sealed for life and come with 2.5 meters of cable attached: hermetically sealed units.... at $115 each and the steaming light is more because it's 3nm rated

[Pete7]

I went to have a look a the NaviLEDs lights Nick is thinking of fitting on the SVB24 website, a German retailer. Looks interesting particularly since they have a long wire tail so you stand some chance of getting the connection below the deck and out of the weather or at least somewhere protected. The equivalent Aqua Signal has just 8 inches of wire.

However, the page they have for LED Bay 15 bulbs is a little worrying with the following statement: Attention: This LED module is not internationally certified. The feedback comments also aren't great.

https://www.svb24.com/en/mega-led-60.html

Perhaps those going over the LEDs need to replace the whole light and not fudge it with just a bulb.

Given that I will probably be running the engine if the stern, side and masthead lights are on, then they can stay as filament bulbs. The tricolour on top of the mast is more tricky. Its a combined Aqua Signal 40 with anchor and tricolour in a combined unit. I don't fancy trying to replace that whilst the mast is up. Since the last filament bulb lasted 7 years I think a new bulb is probably the simplest and cost effective solution. Just need to remember how to open it, the last time the mast was down on trestles and that was tricky enough.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

. . . However, the page they have for LED Bay 15 bulbs is a little worrying with the following statement: Attention: This LED module is not internationally certified. The feedback comments also aren't great.

https://www.svb24.com/en/mega-led-60.html

Perhaps those going over [to] LEDs need to replace the whole light and not fudge it with just a bulb.

. . . .

I think it's important to be realistic -- saving money by re-using old incandescent nav lights with LED "bulbs", is definitely "fudging it".


Might be a more or less acceptable "fudge", in the case of white ones, but if you want to do it right, you do really want to replace the whole fixture.

[s/v Jedi]

My biggest issues with the LED conversion bulbs are that they all seem to be a source of radio interference and they do nothing to prevent corrosion troubles which are the real problem. I don’t mind replacing bulbs every so many years... I mind that the old bulbs are fused into the armatures due to corrosion.

A product like the Hella NaviLED does as much as possible to eliminate corrosion

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I'm about to ditch the Furuno... my n2k port was busted 2 years ago so I used an Actisense converter to get it going again but it's so slow and running Windows that I can't stand it any longer.

I now use it for radar only... with AIS targets on there it's tolerable. Chartplotter is now mostly my iPad with iSailor. I can even set my AP with that... even use dodge mode! Backup is laptop with OpenCPN that also works wireless.

I'm eying B&G 4G radar to be used on OpenCPN but may add a Vulcan 9" for the pretty SailSteer screen. Would also like engine monitoring but believe that requires the Simrad version. Probably will be using YachtDevices for their wifi gateway with apps for instrument displays etc. It never stops.

I’ve been a big advocate over the past seven years on this forum for using an iPad as a primary navigation source. I’ve encountered plenty of opposition from CF members. We now suppliment our iPad usage with several Raymarine e127 hybrid touch units on each boat. Nick, you might want to give TZ by Nobeltec a try on your iPad. The app is free and the charts don’t cost much and are offered in a way that you own them rather than a subscription.

We’ve also switched over to the Hella NaviLED lights which came as original equipment on the 62.

[Pete7]

Seems the topic has come up before on CF, with some interesting observations:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gus-75733.html

Pete