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easterly38 · 18-01-2011, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadlaroche

Where are condoms contraband ?

OK. Between this question and the "When is your dinghy too big" thread, I am really finding it hard to contain myself. Both just seem to be wide open doors for the right person.

JDGreenlee · 18-01-2011, 21:19

Couldn't help falling down the rabbit hole.

Asking if one should carry firearms aboard begs the question of how to use them. Not technically. But conceptually.

While maybe not obvious, in my mind there is a subtle difference between piracy and robbery. Either can be violent, but while piracy is less common, it is more likely to include kidknapping and/or murder. The countertactics for each differ - and should be discussed and rehearsed in advance.

Since robbery, I assert, most often occurs at night while at anchor by locals, wounding by firearm or killing by any means an intruder will most likely have immediate potential for mob reaction. IMHO, using lethal force during a robbery in a second or third world country may be unwise - that's not to say you shouldn't defend yourself, but rather do so without firearms. In the recent tragic case of the Canadian mentioned above, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood he was shot from close range without warning, and therefore, would have had to be wearing his firearm to have had a chance to deter the pirates. Therefore, I argue that firearms are more useful on the open seas where there are fewer people, and less useful in areas of more frequent crime. How weird.

Wounding or killing an attacker "at sea" poses less risk of local legal issues since piracy is most prevalent where there is no rule of law. But it requires bigger toys. Discretion is the better part of valor, so if the binnoculars show the bad guys to have RPG's and/or AK-47's, then it might be wise to evade only. Otherwise, he loses who runs out of diesel, ammo, heart beats, or sinks first.

If one selects firearms as a mode of personal protection at sea, then one might prefer something that can sink a RIB at reasonable distance, say a semi-automatic handgun [oh, maybe 9mm?]. Firing from the helm while erect is unwise, it is better to get small and support your arms for precision (very difficult, you have the engine at full speed and are taking evasive action, right?). Also, rats on a slowly sinking boat are motivated to quickly seek another boat - like yours.

Should one fire a warning shot over their bow? Out-numbered and being chased at full speed one might argue such courtesies are unnecessary - but I suggest that he who fires first should fire a warning shot even if the bad guys don't play fair. If you are unsuccessful detering or quickly sinking them (and there may be three or more RIBs in a pirate attack), then multiple large-capacity ammo clips would become very handy. No time to fill the clip. Better to plug and play. And you'll want to light them up at night, of course, but be advised that he who holds the flood light will very likely draw fire.

Did I mention that you and your convoy mates should not shoot each other while all of this is going on? And heaven forbid mistaking a friendly for a foe - they refused to return your multiple hails before you opened fire, right?

Where is that damn rabbit? He was here awhile ago. Gotta go.

**atoll** · 18-01-2011, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDGreenlee

Couldn't help falling down the rabbit hole.

Asking if one should carry firearms aboard begs the question of how to use them. Not technically. But conceptually.

While maybe not obvious, in my mind there is a subtle difference between piracy and robbery. Either can be violent, but while piracy is less common, it is more likely to include kidknapping and/or murder. The countertactics for each differ - and should be discussed and rehearsed in advance.

Since robbery, I assert, most often occurs at night while at anchor by locals, wounding by firearm or killing by any means an intruder will most likely have immediate potential for mob reaction. IMHO, using lethal force during a robbery in a second or third world country may be unwise - that's not to say you shouldn't defend yourself, but rather do so without firearms. In the recent tragic case of the Canadian mentioned above, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood he was shot from close range without warning, and therefore, would have had to be wearing his firearm to have had a chance to deter the pirates. Therefore, I argue that firearms are more useful on the open seas where there are fewer people, and less useful in areas of more frequent crime. How weird.

Wounding or killing an attacker "at sea" poses less risk of local legal issues since piracy is most prevalent where there is no rule of law. But it requires bigger toys. Discretion is the better part of valor, so if the binnoculars show the bad guys to have RPG's and/or AK-47's, then it might be wise to evade only. Otherwise, he loses who runs out of diesel, ammo, heart beats, or sinks first.

If one selects firearms as a mode of personal protection at sea, then one might prefer something that can sink a RIB at reasonable distance, say a semi-automatic handgun [oh, maybe 9mm?]. Firing from the helm while erect is unwise, it is better to get small and support your arms for precision (very difficult, you have the engine at full speed and are taking evasive action, right?). Also, rats on a slowly sinking boat are motivated to quickly seek another boat - like yours.

Should one fire a warning shot over their bow? Out-numbered and being chased at full speed one might argue such courtesies are unnecessary - but I suggest that he who fires first should fire a warning shot even if the bad guys don't play fair. If you are unsuccessful detering or quickly sinking them (and there may be three or more RIBs in a pirate attack), then multiple large-capacity ammo clips would become very handy. No time to fill the clip. Better to plug and play. And you'll want to light them up at night, of course, but be advised that he who holds the flood light will very likely draw fire.

Did I mention that you and your convoy mates should not shoot each other while all of this is going on? And heaven forbid mistaking a friendly for a foe - they refused to return your multiple hails before you opened fire, right?

Where is that damn rabbit? He was here awhile ago. Gotta go.

what? thought this was a hunting post? wabbits should never be mentioned at sea very bad luck,old cornish superstition.

RTB · 18-01-2011, 22:09

Your best bet is to stay well offshore, then come straight in to port. If you encounter the bad guys at sea, you will probably lose....unless you have one of these Don't daze me, bro! Police experiment with non-lethal Dazer Laser

ovrmyhead · 18-01-2011, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Guns are just to much trouble.
Carry pepper spray when walking around and have a larger can onboard.

Mark

I couldnt agree more. My wife has a can of bear spray at home. If she needs to she is more likely to use it than a gun, doesnt need to worry about shooting through a wall and hitting a kid, her aim sucks but thats okay with that can, and best of all if I come home drunk at 3am I wont be looking at a hole in my chest

goboatingnow · 18-01-2011, 23:51

I find carrying a gun on board very useful. It's a great help on a dark night on a Lee shore in a rising gale and the furlers jammed .....!

Dave

RTB · 19-01-2011, 00:00

But Dave, the pirates are waiting for you on that lee shore....all is lost. Might as well just shoot yourself, eh?

s/vfootloose · 19-01-2011, 01:23

Love the gun threads. Facts folks: At sea you're not likely to need a gun unless your off Somalia, then unless you have a fully auto weapon able to shoot RPGs you're probably screwed. In port when you need them most countries either take them until you leave or put them in a bonded locker. If you are lucky enough to get it out of the locker, loaded, and pop the perp you are screwed. Don't declare it pop the SOB you're screwed. For those Mr. Macho types that say I would rather be in jail then dead, guess what third world jails are not like the US. Most of us are not spring chickens there is a good chance of not living through any time in a rat infested hellhole or becoming someones old lady. Either way you're screwed. Although I think a lot of people would have weapons on board if things were different,but as of now I can't think of any positives to having them on board and there is a boatload of reasons not to.

Patient · 19-01-2011, 01:45

I wouldn't think of not declaring something of that magnitude. From most of the literature available online as long as you have it stowed properly its not that big of a hassle.

So, just out of curiosity and staying a bit on topic.

Is there a company that sells firearms lockers that work for a boat? Everything I have seen is basically a 200lb safe.

According to Noonsite, most places require a "Lockable" area that is realtively "break in" free. I have also seen mention of "Customs Tape" being applied to the locker to indicated illegal removal etc etc.

So considering the specificaions I would think the following would be nice to have:

The ability to mount via bolt from the inside to a verticle surface.
Sealed from the elements.
A pad lock eyelet would be preferable for customs tags (Tamper rings).
Rigid but not extremely heavy.
Tall enough to fit a shotgun and possibly a small shelf on the top for ammunition, papers, etc.

Anyone using something similar? I will update my post if I ever find something that fits that criteria.

pullord · 19-01-2011, 02:20

whats this ? worried about undeclared firearms? yea ,i done that, what is the big deal,,500 fine,,who cares as vi bought the same chunk back from the cops ,,yea,,now they drink my booze,,two choices in some areasL>get murdered or protect yourself and those you PROFESS TO LOVE ,,yea,,serious isnt it ,,i kill,,

sailorboy1 · 19-01-2011, 03:45

All this is just way off the mark.

Do a little strength training and if anyone attacks you swing that old style anchor at them and take their head off. Any old style anchor should be enough to even scare away a whole boat full of pirates!

PS - leave any resulting blood on the anchor afterwards so eveyone can see you are a badass

**Hud3** · 19-01-2011, 03:50

We always cruised with our Boat Cat. Feisty little devil, she was. Nobody ever messed with us.

smallyachts · 19-01-2011, 04:09

Not paranoid, scared or intimidated but:

1 Qt glass bottles filled with a homemade "napalm" brew labeled as "Sailor Sams Magic wood finish" and plenty of flares for the flare gun.

High Pressure/volume pump on separate flexible diesel fuel line with a stream dispersion nozzle conveniently and securely located topsides, and plenty of flares for the flare gun.

And a few "specially modified" flares for the flare guns if it comes down to an onboard confrontation.

Multiple convenient flare gun stowage locations, along with flares/modified flares.

All of the above are only effective in close or extremely close encounters.