Boat on my mooring

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The problem in some places we've been is that a marina operator and even a local Port Captain can never be sure that the offender doesn't not have as a friend or relative someone in a higher place who could get them fired.

This leads to a cautious approach towards taking action of any kind which could anger or irritate someone unless that action is clearly against someone of the lowest economic class who obviously do not have upper class protectors.

It is a case where "Do you know who my father is?" is a valid question.

This is a form of corruption.

People in countries where the rule of law is stronger take it for granted that this form of corruption will not be used against them. They are lucky.

I will add that there are those in certain high places in the US who seem to be willing to discard that rule of law if it seems to them that the law is being used to constrain them from doing what they want to do.

No question things like this happen, and not just in Mexico.

But this works both ways.

When someone asks me ' Do you know who my Dad is' my response is ' My Dad is bigger than your Dad'.

Part of the problem in places like Mexico is that the offending boat may be owned by someone in the Sinaloa cartel. But the answer is to alert the Los Zetas on the sly; and then get out of the way.

[JPA Cate]

In fact, with countries under Napoleonic Law, compared with British Common Law, things work differently, and it is not "corrupt" to them.

Knew a restaurateur in La Paz, BCS, Mexico, who had to make pickups from a particular carniceria. He told us that he sometimes had to double park, against "the law", and that there was a fine for that. He went to the judge beforehand, explained the situation, paid a fee in advance, and was allowed to do his business without interference. It is normal procedure.

American might see it as corruption, and complain about mordida, because it looks that way, but it is merely a different way of doing things.

Ann

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by ghochgraf

Two very separate issues here.
One, unauthorized use of a vacant mooring.
Two, abandoned property. This is the harbormaster's duty. He (she) signed up for this job and has to deal with this kind of stuff. Not your problem, mon! But if you're curious, realize that every state is different.
Back to #1, as a cruiser who is frequently in an unfamiliar port for the night, I have 'borrowed' a mooring on occasion. I always wait until evening when any owners have already tied up and dinghied home for dinner; and I'm gone shortly after first light. If I'm going to leave the boat, I'll contact the harbormaster for a proper temporary tie-up. Should someone come by, I apologize and move to another vacant mooring or find someplace to drop a hook.

Having come back to my slip on a stormy night and found a boat in my slip I would be upset with someone using my slip at any time without permission.

I was able to get turned around and back down the fairway without damaging other vessels but just barely. The individual was aboard and vacated but did not feel it was a big deal...

Had I damaged another boat in getting out it would have been my liability....

Just my two cents worth...

[JPA Cate]

@ ghochgraf:

I've no idea where you're from but picking up someone's mooring "because it's dusk" is the most ridiculous assertion I've heard in a long time. Like, maybe they're late coming home. Private moorings are that: private. You have no rights to its use whatsoever, only designated public moorings. Around Pittwater, Oz., Waterways will issue you a fine, for it. There are mechanisms whereby someone can arrange for you to use their mooring. But it is a big deal. You risk inconvenience to someone whom you have not even met because you don't want to anchor? Really? On purpose? One might be forgiven for wondering if you need to upgrade your anchoring gear.

Oh my.

Ann

[botanybay]

Well said

[Lihuedooley77]

Indeed well said, you just flat do not pick up a private mooring or pull into a private slip. Period.

As far as sinking an offending vessel. not a good plan, especially if you do not think things out, and sink said vessel at your mooring , or in your slip.

Also, you are breaking laws, criminal action and possible felony charges do a few years in the local slams, and then state prison, not to mention the civil aspect and a huge law suit . No sinking, my friends, call the harbies.

As far as being pushed around by some bully or some self important swell, that is not going to happen.

Just one other story, busy weekend day, Newport Bay, Ca,. our vessels going out and returning to our slips and fairway.

Here comes comes a Duffy electric boat into one of our slips. I politely explain that it was a private slip.

Well, the skipper of the Duffy Electric Boat start arguing with me, and of course i made in very clear to not dock. One of the passengers I recognized as the father of the teener , Rickey on the TV show Happy Days, with Fonzie and that fun cast.

I pointed to the TV actor, and smiled and said " You are Ricky's Father, " he was very humorous, and made a cool wise crack about about "going to boat prison " , and we laughed.

However, still told them " they could not dock ". Our actor friend turned around to the skipper of the Duffy and said...

THIS GUY DOES NOT CARE WHO YOU ARE !

They backed out and went in search of another bar with open guest slips.

Point being, knuckling under to someone who is connected is BS, and I really do not care who they are, end of that story.

Picking up an empty private slip or mooring, is not acceptable and that is putting it politely. So for the other folks out there who are boating or sailing
and reading these posts, we highly suggest that you do not make a practice of docking your boat in a private slip, or picking up a private mooring.

It is easy, .plan ahead, make a reservation at a harbor dept guest dock, or Yacht Club, or reserve open non private moorings ahead of time.

Or, properly lay out your anchor in an area with plenty of swing room .

Pretty simple, plan ahead and be respectful of others.

[Macsea]

Make a large sign and hang it off the side of the offending vessel that says " Boat for sale only $1 contact owner" That should get lots of amateur detectives on the case!

[gmakhs]

Are there any laws that give you the ownership of the mooring ?if yes did you have a clear sign on it stating the ownership ?if not it.can be mistaken .
Moorings are unfair to other sailors and should be illegal like they are on most countries .
Now if we consider the mooring your anchor from the moment is abandoned it belongs to first to take it .
The fact that you and the harbour master moved the boat without owners permission is illegal and you should be liable for any damages .

I mean no offense but is tirring to come.to a place and see it full of moorings and no place for anchor .

If it was my boat and I had find out I would sue you and the harbour master .

Now if the mooring belongs to the harbour master , are their mistake not to make sure that you are protected and inform new boats that this mooring is reserved, you still have had no right to.move her .

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Are there any laws that give you the ownership of the mooring ?if yes did you have a clear sign on it stating the ownership ?if not it.can be mistaken .
Moorings are unfair to other sailors and should be illegal like they are on most countries .
Now if we consider the mooring your anchor from the moment is abandoned it belongs to first to take it .
The fact that you and the harbour master moved the boat without owners permission is illegal and you should be liable for any damages .

I mean no offense but is tirring to come.to a place and see it full of moorings and no place for anchor .

If it was my boat and I had find out I would sue you and the harbour master .

Now if the mooring belongs to the harbour master , are their mistake not to make sure that you are protected and inform new boats that this mooring is reserved, you still have had no right to.move her .

Here in Australia a mooring SITE is rented from the government on an annual basis and the renter pays to have an appropriate mooring laid and serviced annually, so your assumptions while possibly valid where you are, are certainly not universal.
If you rent a house/flat somewhere would you be happy to arrive home to find it occupied by by another, illegally?

[gmakhs]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Here in Australia a mooring SITE is rented from the government on an annual basis and the renter pays to have an appropriate mooring laid and serviced annually, so your assumptions while possibly valid where you are, are certainly not universal.
If you rent a house/flat somewhere would you be happy to arrive home to find it occupied by by another, illegally?

In that case I would mark my mooring clearly to show that is reserved.

[JPA Cate]

Or, you can take your boat somewhere else, where there is room to anchor.

As long as more and more boats are sold, room in anchorages will diminish, especially in highly boat populated areas. Usually, if you don't mind going a few more miles, there is an anchorage that will work. Maybe not all 'round protection, maybe an open roadstead, maybe a little crowdy, but something.

Ann

[billknny]

Originally Posted by ghochgraf

Back to #1, as a cruiser who is frequently in an unfamiliar port for the night, I have 'borrowed' a mooring on occasion. I always wait until evening when any owners have already tied up and dinghied home for dinner; and I'm gone shortly after first light. If I'm going to leave the boat, I'll contact the harbormaster for a proper temporary tie-up. Should someone come by, I apologize and move to another vacant mooring or find someplace to drop a hook.

That is just sooooo not OK. Do you let people park in your garage at home if street parking is tight in your neighborhood? What's the difference?

An apology is for when you make a mistake. Apologizing when I catch you with your hand in my pocket lifting my wallet doesn't make it OK...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by billknny

That is just sooooo not OK. Do you let people park in your garage at home if street parking is tight in your neighborhood? What's the difference?

An apology is for when you make a mistake. Apologizing when I catch you with your hand in my pocket lifting my wallet doesn't make it OK...

Sorry, but, yeah, the guy should not take your mooring. Period. He needs to move and most of all, he should not have taken your mooing in the first place.

But don't get so self righteous. He has no hand in your pocket.

If you're inconvenienced, yell at him, or contact the authority. Stamp your feet. Call him an idiot. Whatever. He needs to move. He should not be there. I would not have taken your mooring, but hey, he's a human being.

And he really has not taken anything out of your pocket as long as you get your spot. You are not out anything (of course, if he's left his boat there...that is a different matter, screw him!).

It costs you nothing if he occupied your mooring when you were not using it as long as he gets off immediately.

Don't confuse inconveniencing you with robbing you.

Righteousness is unbecoming.

[Jim Cate]

IMO, IF you stay on board and IF you move immediately should the owner return and ask you to leave, then no harm, no foul.

There are some areas in the Pittwater in NSW where clubs and associations were permitted to place moorings in park waters. There the stipulation is that anyone may use a vacant mooring, but if a member of the owning organization should arrive, you must move off briskly.

It works, and with very little rancor exhibited. I think it is a good model for all mooring fields, for in many places they occupy most of the good anchoring spots, and there are often more empties than occupied.

Of course, one must stay aboard and be ready to move at a short notice...

Jim

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

IMO, IF you stay on board and IF you move immediately should the owner return and ask you to leave, then no harm, no foul.

There are some areas in the Pittwater in NSW where clubs and associations were permitted to place moorings in park waters. There the stipulation is that anyone may use a vacant mooring, but if a member of the owning organization should arrive, you must move off briskly.

It works, and with very little rancor exhibited. I think it is a good model for all mooring fields, for in many places they occupy most of the good anchoring spots, and there are often more empties than occupied.

Of course, one must stay aboard and be ready to move at a short notice...

Jim

Firstly, I think it is area dependent - different approaches in different areas. Pittwater was brought up as an example of taking a mooring being a big no no. Yet right around the corner is American Harbour where it is common practice to grab an empty mooring at night.
While the mooring 'owner' certainly has rights to use her mooring, in an area where the moorings have crowded out all the good, safe anchor spots (which is more and more common), it is pretty unfair to have a bunch of unused moorings sitting there each night with cruisers that have a need.

If I take a mooring that isn't explicitly assigned to me, then I stay on the boat or in sight of the boat.
Either way don't make it an angry scene by either party, no one is stealing anything.