Aussie Kiwi skippers, US vessel, where to register?

[WingingIt]

Hi all,

This seems like a hashed subject but its still confusing.

We are about to buy a cat that is registered in the US and I have an Aussie passport and UK passport. My husband has a New Zealand passport. Currently we are non-residents for tax purposes of Australia and NZ as we are residents of Bahrain as my husband is working in Saudi Arabia.

I believe that if we want to register the vessel in Australia then we have to have it back into Australia within a year to pay GST and Import Duty on the actual price paid. If we leave it outside the year then we will be charged these taxes on the market value of the boat. However, we have no intention of bringing back the boat in the next 5yrs, if at all but if we ever needed too then we dont want to be hit with an unknown amount.

What does everyone think is best option for us? I see Jersey mentioned but is it possible to become a resident of Jersey? What other countries can we register too?

Thanks a lot for all your forth coming input

[David_Old_Jersey]

This post as much about a thread bump as others around with more hands on experiance of the Aussie end of Boat reg (and the tax stuff).

Originally Posted by WingingIt

Hi all,

This seems like a hashed subject but its still confusing.

We are about to buy a cat that is registered in the US and I have an Aussie passport and UK passport. My husband has a New Zealand passport. Currently we are non-residents for tax purposes of Australia and NZ as we are residents of Bahrain as my husband is working in Saudi Arabia.

I believe that if we want to register the vessel in Australia then we have to have it back into Australia within a year to pay GST and Import Duty on the actual price paid. If we leave it outside the year then we will be charged these taxes on the market value of the boat. However, we have no intention of bringing back the boat in the next 5yrs, if at all but if we ever needed too then we dont want to be hit with an unknown amount.......my understanding (i.e. am pretty certain, but not 100% sure!) is that the Aussie taxman only collects his cash when the boat arrives in Oz (at it's then market valuation) and not simply upon Aussie registration. The good(?!) news is that the boat probably won't go up in price, so you at least have a starting ballpark for the tax (and likely dropping ).

What does everyone think is best option for us? I see Jersey mentioned but is it possible to become a resident of Jersey? What other countries can we register too? You do not need to become a resident of Jersey to register a boat here on the UK part 1 Register (in your personal name - i.e. no need for a company). Being a Citizen of a country that is in the Commonwealth is good enuf. (At the risk of adding to the confusion!, however you do need to be a resident in Jersey to get on the SSR - the cheap as chips register).

Thanks a lot for all your forth coming input

As you probably know already, boat location and length of stay will dictate what taxes are paid on the boat elsewhere (broad rule is that if the boat stays long enough somewhere it will eventually get a tax bill - as regarded as having been imported. how long (and how likely!) depends on the country). And whilst some overlap (as you likely to be onboard the boat for some if not all time it is visiting places) nonetheless your personal tax position (i.e. you becoming a tax resident) is a seperate matter to the boat, but same broad rule applies (stay long enough in one place etc).

In your shoes if you one day intend to live in Australia (even though no certain plans for the boat to ever go to Australia) and you are allowed to (reg might be on Residency not passport - check!) I would go for Aussie Reg. Matches at least one of your passports. and nearly another! (no requirement to do that - but just makes the story easier to understand. Officialdom like simple!). Aussie (and Kiwi) owners with an Aussie Flag (and "Home" address) nice and seemples. Might be useful if you are inbetween a permanent residency somewhere (left Bahrain - but not yet arrived anywhere else!).....

...failing that I would pick Jersey . My only hesitation would be if you were intending a multi year EU stay and were not personally tax resident anywhere (and therefore could not prove you were somewhere else! - albeit you could probably "magic up" still being resident in Bahrain as plenty of real history to play with) as may look like you (as UK passport holder) were simply being a bit too clever on the VAT (and Jersey has a certain reputation on tax. some of it even unfair. some of it ). Elsewhere in the world not an issue. and with no EU (UK) passport connection none either (and if your paperwork is good on you being resident outside the EU also none).

IIRC (check!) Cost of Aussie vs Jersey Reg pretty much the same overall (over 5 or 10 years).


This started out as a quick 3 line post . They always do .

[WingingIt]

Hi David,

thanks for the reply. That sounds about what i'll do. I didn't realise we could register in Australia without paying tax immediately. I thought we had to bring the boat back within a year but that's not right so i'm much relieved.

thanks for your great advice.

Until next time...there'll be plenty

Andrea

[downunder]

You don't have to worry about import duty and GST until the vessel enters Aust waters.

Only payable when boat reaches Australia and in 5 years the vessel will have depreciated and taxed on its value at the time.

Go ahead and register as Aust vessel and taxes only payable on entry

www.importayacht.com.au A site covers it all.

Search for previous threads here on CF also

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by WingingIt

Hi David,

thanks for the reply. That sounds about what i'll do. I didn't realise we could register in Australia without paying tax immediately. I thought we had to bring the boat back within a year but that's not right so i'm much relieved.

thanks for your great advice.

Until next time...there'll be plenty

Andrea

Just to clarify (for others, if not you) - not advice, simply internet ramblings . But sounds like from Downunder's comments that was in the ballpark.

I would double check that Aussie reg has no residency requirement (for the Owner). Of course could "work around" that to come up with a "home" address in Oz, but I would hesitate to do so just in case the non boat Aussie Tax Dept notices you have declared yourself to be an Aussie resident and welcomes you to (back to) Oz with a tax bill .

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I would double check that Aussie reg has no residency requirement (for the Owner). Of course could "work around" that to come up with a "home" address in Oz, but I would hesitate to do so just in case the non boat Aussie Tax Dept notices you have declared yourself to be an Aussie resident and welcomes you to (back to) Oz with a tax bill .

Actually I think the wording that I have read, is that boats own by Aussie citizens legally must be registered in Aus. The lack of residency will not be a problem with registration and that should be easily confirmed through official channels..

On the other hand, creating a "residence" back in Aus would make them tax liable for all income earned, including the tax free Saudi money. Better to pay the GST and import duties on the boat than become Aussie tax resident again

[hoppy]

Australian Maritime Safety Authority
Brochure - Yachts, Cruisers and Fishing Boats

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by hoppy

Australian Maritime Safety Authority
Brochure - Yachts, Cruisers and Fishing Boats

I got curious and clicked the link!

The Website says that "It is an offence for an Australian-owned vessel to sail for a foreign port unless it is registered in the Australian Register of Ships". But (to my reading) the term Australian seems to be rather loosely used (and I could not find a specific definition - albeit I did not look too hard!)........The Declaration of Ownership and Nationality provides no clarity either (does not say that the Owner's address has to be in Oz).

Shipping Registration - Forms

But if IIRC that "requirement" is simply for the usual circumstances of an Aussie owned and based boat heading abroad (and not written for Aussies who live abroad - therefore the boat is not "Australian" simply because it is owned by an Aussie). A more thorough search of the website might reveal more, or simply getting in contact with them.

FWIW, UK (not Jersey!) Part 1 reg has a residency requirement (passport irrelevant), whereas other registries require both! - so rules do vary.....I would definately want to nail the answer down to avoid accidently causing tax problems (aggro if not actually a bill) by declaring self an Aussie tax resident!

Of course what would be nice is if a (foreign based) Aussie had done Oz reg already (on a boat also located overseas) and would chip in (they probably have already in a few other threads!).

[chris_gee]

You can register it in Australia. Just as important perhaps is where you are going to keep it and the tax and permit required there.

[WingingIt]

Thanks everyone,

I will check out those links and definitely going to have to contact the said department/s for the final word. There is no way we are becoming residents again until we finish in Saudi so we'll have to work out something between now and then. Or...eeek...we may have to put off buying the boat for now!!!

[WingingIt]

I just had a conversation with our multihull broker in Australia who had sat down with customs this morning to check on latest procedures. This is what he told me...as we are already non-residents for tax purposes and we plan on staying out of Australia for at least 2-3yrs, we should have no problem not paying import duty when we go back. We have comfortably proven Australia is not our place of residence so when we enter we can get a cursing permit for 1yr and even extend that if we needed. As long as we dont make Aust our permanent home we will not need to import the boat. As for registration with AMSA, this has nothing to do with importation. It's completely separate so we can register as an Australian vessel.
As for leaving the boat in the US for charter, apparently most people have their boats owned by a business and if this is so in our case then we just purchase the business for the same price and this will be fine as Australians. We just have to make sure we do all the appropriate taxes, of course.

Im feeling much better now about all this. Not so complicated for us.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by WingingIt

I just had a conversation with our multihull broker in Australia who had sat down with customs this morning to check on latest procedures. This is what he told me...as we are already non-residents for tax purposes and we plan on staying out of Australia for at least 2-3yrs, we should have no problem not paying import duty when we go back. We have comfortably proven Australia is not our place of residence so when we enter we can get a cursing permit for 1yr and even extend that if we needed. As long as we dont make Aust our permanent home we will not need to import the boat. As for registration with AMSA, this has nothing to do with importation. It's completely separate so we can register as an Australian vessel.
As for leaving the boat in the US for charter, apparently most people have their boats owned by a business and if this is so in our case then we just purchase the business for the same price and this will be fine as Australians. We just have to make sure we do all the appropriate taxes, of course.

Im feeling much better now about all this. Not so complicated for us.

I would triple check that. You are still an Australian with Australian passport I suspect that might not be the case.

Best contact customs directly rather than go through a third party to be sure of that.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...alia-3346.html

There is a lot of discussion in the above thread.

Cheers