Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-10-2013, 08:49   #166
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Folks, I have just rigged up a fishing net under the boat and dropped the rudder post out. It fell perfectly ionto the net and I easily retrieved it. Now ... the mystery begins. Was I "shafted" by the previous owner? We own a Beneteau Oceanis 50 hull number 80, so part of the hull number is 5080 (I think the 50 stands for the length of boast and the hull number for the year is no 80. I have found the following written/engraved on the rudder post: "cyclade5088"

Our hull number is 5080, not 5088 and we do not have a Cyclades. I will have to show it to the rep. Anyone of our good fellow sailors that can shed some light for me perhaps?
__________________

__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 09:03   #167
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Folks, I have just rigged up a fishing net under the boat and dropped the rudder post out. It fell perfectly ionto the net and I easily retrieved it. Now ... the mystery begins. Was I "shafted" by the previous owner? We own a Beneteau Oceanis 50 hull number 80, so part of the hull number is 5080 (I think the 50 stands for the length of boast and the hull number for the year is no 80. I have found the following written/engraved on the rudder post: "cyclade5088"

Our hull number is 5080, not 5088 and we do not have a Cyclades. I will have to show it to the rep. Anyone of our good fellow sailors that can shed some light for me perhaps?
these boats are built on a production line,could be yours was ready for its rudder before hull #88 at the other end of the line!

not sure but if the hulls are the same,only the layout is different between a cyclades and a charter version?
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 09:16   #168
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,330
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
I agree, unfortunately the bucket we had was too weak. We have searched for a heavy duty old style bucket but have not found one yet.

Oh boy, I dread what might come from this bucket talk ... no, please not here folks!
Next time try full jerry jugs as drogues.

Hang in there, and learn to enjoy the French culture.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 09:35   #169
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
these boats are built on a production line,could be yours was ready for its rudder before hull #88 at the other end of the line!

not sure but if the hulls are the same,only the layout is different between a cyclades and a charter version?
Ours is an Oceanis and is not a charter version, its the owner's version. I will check on the Cyclades but my impression is that they do not have the same finish as the Oceanis. I will try and investigate further and will show the rudder post to the rep on Monday. In the meantime I will do some internet trawling and investigation lol.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 10:43   #170
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
have you thought about how you are going to seal up the hole left by the shaft once you remove it,if you end up towing the boat you will have a lot of water spurting up there.

it might be better to wait till you lift the boat,and instead make a free standing rudder/rudders that will bolt to the transom. on a frame.

making a temporary rudder to fit in the hole will be costly and time consuming imo.
Thanks, just seen your post here. What I did was use an orange rubber cone bung (that you get from Budget Marine etc). It fits perfectly. Then took a block of wood and clamped it over the top of the bung so that if any water tries to force its way up it will not dislodge the bung. If you can think of anything else, thanks mate, just let me know.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:01   #171
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
" I mean there are plenty of old Taiwan built cruising boats around that were built in the 80's with no failres yet. I would imagine the shafts are some type of 304-ish SS.... am I missing something....?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post

Give 'em all ten thousand days at sea in heavy wx and you might see a nice uniform 100% failure rate. (Ten thousand, two thousand, fifty thousand, pick a number, any number.)

I know someone who picked up six nails and got six flat tires in three years. I know someone else who has had only one flat in 25+ years. Does it mean something? Sure, one of them has just had better luck. All tires are vulnerable to nails, all rudder stocks are vulnerable to failure modes. Boats of different pedigrees, built or overbuilt by knowing designers or overzealous accountants, built maybe when steel was cheaper...There could be all sorts of reasons why it *seems* like so many boats from a certain time and place are doing better or worse than others. Could be the buyers do their sailing differently, too.

Plenty of stuff to miss.
These boats are out there and have been forever. (The whole CT line, Passports, Tayanas, Baba's etc) However, as mentioned, many are full keel or skeg hung. On a spade rudder, a SS solid shaft should very rarely break, but could bend for sure. It should be bendable even 90 degrees. Try that with composite. It's like comparing a steel boat with a glass one..... that's all i'm sayin'...
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:05   #172
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

I have taken some pics of the snapped rudder post folks. I welcome any input on what you see.

Hope I have got it right to attach the pics?

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0130.jpg
Views:	835
Size:	285.0 KB
ID:	69358

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0129.jpg
Views:	284
Size:	260.6 KB
ID:	69359

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0128.jpg
Views:	283
Size:	398.4 KB
ID:	69360

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0127.jpg
Views:	271
Size:	343.1 KB
ID:	69361
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:22   #173
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Looks like they layed it up over a wood dowel. It looks quite light in color... is it just fiberglass or supposed to be something more exotic? How big in daimeter would you say that is?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:39   #174
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Looks like they layed it up over a wood dowel. It looks quite light in color... is it just fiberglass or supposed to be something more exotic? How big in daimeter would you say that is?
Its entirely some sort of composite, top end 82mm diameter, where it snapped off about 130mm diameter. The inner core seems to be some sort of foam.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:40   #175
Registered User
 
Tx J's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Texas
Boat: Newport 28 & Robalo 20
Posts: 363
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Good luck and best wishes, you're both OK and you still have 99% of the boat... :]
That damage looks like it was progressing over a period of time to me.
Thanks for writing about this incident too, lots of good advice.
You've convinced me (along with some other CF threads) to put constructing a backup/emergency rudder on the to-do list.
I think it will be fairly easy on my boat as the transom is straight and vertical, a plain tillered pintle&gudgeon hung rudder shouldn't be too difficult to do. Or I have some ideas for something even easier to rig under less than ideal sea conditions (using different diameter pipes).

Not to hijack the thread, but does an 'emergency' rudder have to be on the boat centerline? It would surely work, albeit a little squirrely handling, if offset from the center of the transom?
__________________
Tx J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:45   #176
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx J View Post
Good luck and best wishes, you're both OK and you still have 99% of the boat... :]
That damage looks like it was progressing over a period of time to me.
Thanks for writing about this incident too, lots of good advice.
You've convinced me (along with some other CF threads) to put constructing a backup/emergency rudder on the to-do list.
I think it will be fairly easy on my boat as the transom is straight and vertical, a plain tillered pintle&gudgeon hung rudder shouldn't be too difficult to do. Or I have some ideas for something even easier to rig under less than ideal sea conditions (using different diameter pipes).

Not to hijack the thread, but does an 'emergency' rudder have to be on the boat centerline? It would surely work, albeit a little squirrely handling, if offset from the center of the transom?
Thanks for the good wishes. I wouldn't think it has to be centreline. I am sure that an emergency rudder mounted off-centre will work fine and give you more than adequate steerage. I have been given advice in emergencies to even lash a dinghy to the side of the boat with about 1/3 protruding past the transom. Apparently this will give good steering but I doubt it will work in rough conditions. One day I will try it when I have less to do and we are in flat calm seas.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:47   #177
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
Its entirely some sort of composite, top end 82mm diameter, where it snapped off about 130mm diameter. The inner core seems to be some sort of foam.
Wow, so almost 5.25 inch diameter where it snapped. I wonder if it was damaged by grounding in charter long ago?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 11:51   #178
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Wow, so almost 5.25 inch diameter where it snapped. I wonder if it was damaged by grounding in charter long ago?
This boat is an owner's version and has never been chartered. We are the 3rd owners but I am suspecting that either the 1st owner or the one we bought from is not saying anything about maybe reversing into something and rep[lacing the rudder with a different Beneteau model's rudder (Cyclades). I am going to try and investigate further and will def post here should I find anything. Its only 6 years old being a 2007 model, that rudder post looks older to me. Time will hopefully shed more light for us. Taking no chances and going to put in an original as soon as we can. Our boat is in great shape and I don't want any shortcuts, except as an emergency. We are desperate to get out of here.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 12:04   #179
Registered User
 
Tx J's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Texas
Boat: Newport 28 & Robalo 20
Posts: 363
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812 View Post
This boat is an owner's version and has never been chartered. We are the 3rd owners but I am suspecting that either the 1st owner or the one we bought from is not saying anything about maybe reversing into something and rep[lacing the rudder with a different Beneteau model's rudder (Cyclades). I am going to try and investigate further and will def post here should I find anything. Its only 6 years old being a 2007 model, that rudder post looks older to me. Time will hopefully shed more light for us. Taking no chances and going to put in an original as soon as we can. Our boat is in great shape and I don't want any shortcuts, except as an emergency. We are desperate to get out of here.
(Just to lighten things up a bit)
Sooner or later all our 'cruising kitties' take a hit:


(pic lifted long ago from somewhere on the innertoobz; that kitty was shot by some a$$hole, and then rescued, pic taken before surgery at the vets)
__________________
Tx J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2013, 12:10   #180
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Rudder nightmare at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx J View Post
(Just to lighten things up a bit)
Sooner or later all our 'cruising kitties' take a hit:


(pic lifted long ago from somewhere on the innertoobz; that kitty was shot by some a$$hole, and then rescued, pic taken before surgery at the vets)
Tks, a bit of humour helps, sorry about the kitty though. I hope the a-hole got/gets his just rewards! I'm not a kitty lover but I am an animal lover (dogs especially), how anyone could do that just blows one's mind.
__________________

__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.