Rudder nightmare at sea

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

I have taken some pics of the snapped rudder post folks. I welcome any input on what you see.

Hope I have got it right to attach the pics?

Attachment 69358

Attachment 69359

Attachment 69360

Attachment 69361

Thats a foam core in the center. It looks like it may have been severely damaged at an earlier date. Looks like the layup has been wet inside for some time. Heavy salt buildup?

Usually a tube like this is machine pultruded. Basically the glass fiber is woven around a mandrel. This looks like a different method may have been used. Usually a machine woven tube has some visible weave at the surface. This looks too uniform and suspiciously rich. I would be curious to know by what method it was built. Looks like mostly double bias, I don't see any obvious uni fibers.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by minaret

Thats a foam core in the center. It looks like it may have been severely damaged at an earlier date. Looks like the layup has been wet inside for some time. Heavy salt buildup?

Usually a tube like this is machine pultruded. Basically the glass fiber is woven around a mandrel. This looks like a different method may have been used. Usually a machine woven tube has some visible weave at the surface. This looks too uniform and suspiciously rich. I would be curious to know by what method it was built. Looks like mostly double bias, I don't see any obvious uni fibers.

Thanks for your input. All a bit over my head I,m afraid, as I have no clue as to the various methods used.

[DeepFrz]

Maybe send a PM to minaret and ask him to look at your pictures and comment. Looks like a very poor layup with large voids to me, but I must admit I am no expert.

Ooops, he was already here...lol.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Maybe send a PM to minaret and ask him to look at your pictures and comment. Looks like a very poor layup with large voids to me, but I must admit I am no expert.

Ooops, he was already here...lol.

Thanks, Minaret was quick on the draw.

[minaret]

In this pic you can see where they brushed it with gelcoat after they had lost the chemical bond. Now the gel is flaking off. Where it has already flaked off you can see the original layup clearly. It looks super rich to me. If that was my boat I'd cut a small sample of it and burn test it for resin/fiber ratio. I bet it's way off.

That would certainly be just one (probably very important) factor. The other is that this is a terrible design. All the load is put right on the edge of the lower bearing, right where it failed. This is not a good place for composites.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by minaret

In this pic you can see where they brushed it with gelcoat after they had lost the chemical bond. Now the gel is flaking off. Where it has already flaked off you can see the original layup clearly. It looks super rich to me. If that was my boat I'd cut a small sample of it and burn test it for resin/fiber ratio. I bet it's way off.

That would certainly be just one (probably very important) factor. The other is that this is a terrible design. All the load is put right on the edge of the lower bearing, right where it failed. This is not a good place for composites.

I really appreciate this input. I am just wondering whether I should put this to Beneteau themselves and see whether they were responsible for the build of the this rudder post?

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Thank you for the encouragement, much appreciated. You are right and I am happy to learn and have others learn from all of this if there is anything new that can be added to our collective experience. I guess it would be naive to think the world does not have people we can do without lol.

I am thick skinned though. I just honestly want to get on with the important things now and we are truly greatful to everyone here who has contributed with some sound advice, encouragement and the like. I had a long chat via Skype yesterday with a gentleman in Melbourne, Florida (Jon Thomas). He was fantastically supportive and encouraging and I am going to see if I can follow up on his advice and make a temporary rudder while we wait for Beneteau to respond and provide us with prices and delivery time frames. I am not great with my hands but it's never too late to try.

Being a weekend on this French Island, Island time has kicked in solidly so we will have an uphill struggle to get materials. My motto to my kids has always been "NEVER GIVE UP".

Wow, you have trouble using your hands and you are a sailor??.......Ahh, I get it your one of those guys that has procured a crew of beautiful young mermaids...te..he...

All kidding aside, the fact is so many over the years just disappeared into the vast oceans of our world over incidents like what happened to you. You didn't, and are still able to enjoy life and put this bad thing behind you.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

I really appreciate this input. I am just wondering whether I should put this to Beneteau themselves and see whether they were responsible for the build of the this rudder post?

Very likely they are. Looks like in the above pic somebody used a dull object to write the lettering in the wet layup? Are the letters impressed into the glass? If so it was written at the factory when built. Pretty common, especially with infusion. Then you are just writing on the bag surface.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

Wow, you have trouble using your hands and you are a sailor??.......Ahh, I get it your one of those guys that has procured a crew of beautiful young mermaids...te..he...

All kidding aside, the fact is so many over the years just disappeared into the vast oceans of our world over incidents like what happened to you. You didn't, and are still able to enjoy life and put this bad thing behind you.

Haha, the Admiral says thanks ... she has not been called a beautiful mermaid before lol. Jokes aside, she is to me.

Your comment makes me feel that I did do something right

[Zanshin]

I really hope that a fiberglass expert can do an analysis of the remnants, the pictures look worrisome but don't say anything to me regarding the possible cause. The inner core looks like non-structural foam used to start the lay-up process. I am surprised by the Cyclades rudder on an Oceanis, but the serial number will make tracking somewhat simpler.
What are you plans once you have a rudder? Are you heading north? I'll be back in about 3 weeks and heading south.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by minaret

Very likely they are. Looks like in the above pic somebody used a dull object to write the lettering in the wet layup? Are the letters impressed into the glass? If so it was written at the factory when built. Pretty common, especially with infusion. Then you are just writing on the bag surface.

It does seem like it was written when it was "wet".

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I really hope that a fiberglass expert can do an analysis of the remnants, the pictures look worrisome but don't say anything to me regarding the possible cause. The inner core looks like non-structural foam used to start the lay-up process. I am surprised by the Cyclades rudder on an Oceanis, but the serial number will make tracking somewhat simpler.
What are you plans once you have a rudder? Are you heading north? I'll be back in about 3 weeks and heading south.

Thanks Zanshin, we will head North to St Martin but are happy to divert if we can meet up and you could have a look if that's what you are thinking. Intention is to head to St. Martin, then Puerto Rico, then Turks then Miami.

[MarkJ]

I will be in St Martin as soon as this big cloud goes over so I would love to see it and have a look (and buy you a very small beer to help comiserate).


Mark

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I will be in St Martin as soon as this big cloud goes over so I would love to see it and have a look (and buy you a very small beer to help comiserate).


Mark

Thanks Mark, let's hope we can get there ... we will reciprocate. I love beer haha.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by nigel1

If the rudder post fitting is anything like the 473 and other bendy models, the lower bearing may have come lose (only held in place with Sikaflex or similar, and it may drop out with the post. Make sure what ever you use to catch the post will be able to catch the bearing as well.
I think the bearing costs about $150, dont want to lose it.

Thanks Nigel1,

Have two bearings attached to the post that I caught in the net. You are right, they had to use a "glue"/Sikaflex or the like for a bearing. Doesn't seem like I have lost anything.