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Old 21-03-2008, 13:12   #1
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New custom Toerail question

Im having a custom aluminum toe rail made for my Blue water bound Corbin 39.
It had a teak toe rail on it that I have taken off. Under that I found that the deck to hull joint is fastened on 8 centers (5/16th I think). Some earlier Corbins were on 6 centers. I plan to use the toerail instead of T-Track for the Genoa sheets. I will be attaching a harness for a Sea Anchor to it off the Bow. I will be attaching a harness for a series drogue off the Stern.
Attached is the profile of the custom extrusion I am having made.

I have a couple of questions.
-What do you think of the profile?
-I know (from searching and searching) that there are many countersink angle for machine screws but have yet to find websites that tell you what theirs are for their bolts or for T-Tracks or for anything else for that matter. What countersink angle should I use that would be consistent with the angle of commonly found 5/16ths SS machine screws which would be used to fasten the toe rail to the deck/hull?
-I was going to fasten the toerail at 8 centers (in between the deck to hull fasteners) but after much reading am now thinking that I should fasten on 4 centers. Do you have an opinion on this?


Let me know,
Thanks.
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Old 21-03-2008, 16:35   #2
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toe rail

Proprtions look ok to me. You're about 2.2" high, and I'm assuming the thickness of the upright portion is around 10mm, or a little over .375".

Standard countersink angle for US fasteners is 82 degrees.

I'd think closer than 8" spacing, 6" if you can stagger it around the existing 8" hull/deck joint; if you can't then maybe go to 4", 2" either side of existing.

Of course, anodize after drilling and countersinking.

Good luck, Bob S/V Restless
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Old 21-03-2008, 16:36   #3
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If memory serves me (last machine shop job was in 1984) countersinks used for common machine screws are 82 degrees inclusive; If it were me, I would go with four inch centers--with sea anchors and drogues and so forth, more is better. 'course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. . . .
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Old 22-03-2008, 15:51   #4
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Aloha Extemp,
Look at the thread "Installing aluminum toerail"
If you can't find it on search then do a search for toerail and about the 2nd or 3rd page it actually came up with something. Amazing.
JohnL
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Old 22-03-2008, 15:54   #5
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Installing Aluminum Toerail

I went with 1/4 20 bolts through the cabin top every 8" and the same from the hull side every 8" meaning there are 1/4 20 bolts every 4". Where there are bulkheads I used screws. Where the bolts needed to be longer I used threaded rod.
Regards,

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Old 22-03-2008, 17:51   #6
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Thanks, SkiprJohn, good stuff.
Just completed the drawings that will go to the manufacturer, have a look, let me know what you think (anyone). Any opinions on which Aluminum alloy , 6063-T5 or 6061-T6? I have one recommendation to go with the first one.
After the aluminum is extruded it will then be rolled, machined, hard anodized and finally installed.
As far as the previous existing holes (some 5/16th, some 1/4") from the previous Teak Cap and T-Rail on top of portions of that, I was going to epoxy them in but am now thinking this would likely just shear such a small diameter piece of epoxy (with even the slightest flex), so I'm thinking a flexible caulking. I could always get to them afterward if they leaked. I would then have to do any sealing for underneath. Could almost pressure grout it (similar).
Still hoping for a little firmer confirmation regarding countersink angle. Don't want to get that wrong.
Don't give me a hard time regarding front/back, left/right. It's for the manufacturers benefit.
Thanks, All.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Aloha Extemp,
Look at the thread "Installing aluminum toerail"
If you can't find it on search then do a search for toerail and about the 2nd or 3rd page it actually came up with something. Amazing.
JohnL
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Old 23-03-2008, 02:29   #7
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The previously recommended (SkipperJohn) discussion
cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/installing-aluminum-toerail-8718.html
Installing Aluminum Toerail
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Old 23-03-2008, 10:42   #8
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Missiing a few words?

But that can happen at 04:00.
Thanks Gord, but what are you saying?
  1. My custom Design (in which I've spent countless hours) is really the same as the Installation thread and I should have known to add mine to a post of June 2007? Anything less would be wasting everyone's time?
  2. I should have picked up on another Member's will that I put my post somewhere else on the board and done it?
If an Administrator feels my creating a separate thread for my custom project is inappropriate and wants it elsewhere, then just say so. I'm okay with that.
If I have misunderstood what you haven't said, please excuse me.

Will you be moving it?

P.S. I do not post indiscriminately without much searching and reading. I also see the benefit of a reduced amount of threads about the same thing, I guess the countless hours, major investment, closeness to my heart and will to speak to this specific Custom undertaking clouded my judgement.

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The previously recommended (SkipperJohn) discussion
cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/installing-aluminum-toerail-8718.html
Installing Aluminum Toerail
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Old 23-03-2008, 11:54   #9
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Hi Matey,
Please note the earlier suggestion to drill all fixing holes / countersinks / any cut aways in top sections before anodizing...........it looks so much better and lasts longer too.
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Old 23-03-2008, 12:12   #10
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... Thanks Gord, but what are you saying?
Will you be moving it?
I was linking you to additional information, as referenced by Skipper John.
I won't be moving this excellent thread.
Sorry for being obscure.
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Old 23-03-2008, 12:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagman View Post
Hi Matey,
Please note the earlier suggestion to drill all fixing holes / countersinks / any cut aways in top sections before anodizing...........it looks so much better and lasts longer too.
JOHN
Thanks John, I'll try to make sure I get all the machining done (at least the things I'm smart enough to catch) before hard anodizing. I know there is no going back after the anodizing, that's why I want to make sure I get it right (with the help of all of you).

Any opinions on which Aluminum alloy , 6063-T5 or 6061-T6?

Thanks again.
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Old 23-03-2008, 13:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
I was linking you to additional information, as referenced by Skipper John.
Just didn't know.......... Thanks.

Gord, from what I've seen around this board, you have brought forward a lot of technical info on almost every subject possible.
Can you make any comments regarding the aluminum alloy, 6063-T5 or 6061-T6 or other aluminum alloy I should have the manufacturer extrude the toerail from?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 23-03-2008, 16:41   #13
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Aloha Extemp,
I don't know the answer or have an opinion about the alloy. The reason I went with the toerail design I did, which is very different from yours, is that it also is my hull to deck joint. There is no where on this island to anodize so I must install it and then coat it with some good paint.
Kind Regards,
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Old 23-03-2008, 16:44   #14
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P. S. I think everyone knows that even though a subject has been discussed on a different thread that the search engine is not working very well and we have to help folks find the threads if we have some old memory of the discussion.
Kind Regards,
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Old 23-03-2008, 16:58   #15
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The 6061 T6 will be stiffer and will sweep to a very fair curve simply by pulling it into the hull. The 6063 T5 is typically used for bending, when you're using rollers or dies, because the 6061 will crack when machine bent whereas the 6063 will not. It is my understanding that the 6063 'becomes' 6061 in a year or 18 months as it ages, that is, it has the same characteristics of 6061 over time, so perhaps in this application you could go with the 6063. As long as you're not doing any radical machine bends, I really don't think it matters much which one it is.
As I said above, the countersink included angle for US fasteners is 82 degrees.
Hope this helps, Bob S/V Restless
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