Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-06-2007, 16:51   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Installing Aluminum Toerail

I'm just getting ready to install slotted aluminum toerail on my Cascade. I will be using 5200 and then screwing and thru bolting every so often. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what interval one should put a screw or bolt through the toerail at the top of the hull?

The toerail is heavy aluminum that goes down the side 2 1/2 inches then curves over on the deck 1 1/2 inches. The slotted part continues vertically from the side portion above the deck.

I'll be calling Cascade too but thought I'd run it by the experts just to get your opinion. All opinions are requested.

Kind Regards,

JohnL
__________________

__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 19:23   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Most toerails are already drilled and c'sunk at 4" intervals. I don't think I've ever seen one that's not. What brand is it????

If one has to drill and c'sink them selves, that means the anodize coating will be compromised.
__________________

__________________
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 21:57   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Yes, you are absolutely right. No holes, no anodizing. I think you are right about 4" intervals. The extrusions came from Cascade about '90. Shipped to Hawaii where there is nowhere to anodize. Makes my project a bit difficult but not impossible. There is also mention of screws coming down into the deck on the lip that rolls over the deck edge. Would that be the same interval? Every 4"s?

Just looking for all kinds of opinions here.

It appears that Cascade and Yacht Constructors are going out of business or changing hands? No more chandlery, or engine service. I don't even know if they'll be able to answer my question. They used to be very helpful with all construction questions when Hans was around.

Kind Regards,

JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 00:07   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
I haven't seen screws come in from the side before. I'm not sure what purpose it would serve.

An edge lap toerail is for deck to hull joints where the deck sits on top of a hull shelf and then bolts them together with the 4" spacing.

If it's a wood deck......... I thought Cascade was a glass hull? Why would they want to put screws in between the deck laminate.

Need more input...............

Are the new tracks bronze, by any chance?
__________________
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 02:27   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Screws, when used, were intended only as a temporary hull to deck fastening during assembly.

Typically, the hull is flanged inboard for an inch or two, capped with a strip of compressible butyl compound, fitted with a d-shaped vinyl rub rail, more butyl tape, the deck fitted in place, and fastened with screws, another butyl tape applied followed by an extruded aluminum toerail track, and the whole sandwich fastened with 1/4" - 5/16" s.s. bolts on close (usuually 4") centers. Once the bolts are taken up the butyl compound fills every crevice. If there is a deck leak at any point, simply tighten the readily accessible toe rail track bolts in the immediate area.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Toerail-Hull-Deck_F45.gif
Views:	1695
Size:	18.4 KB
ID:	1307  
Attached Images
 
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 02:31   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Thanks Gord!

Pictures do speak louder then words.
__________________
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 12:26   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Question My Toerail Deckjoint System

Hope this attachment makes it.
This is my toerail deckjoint system. My Carlins are a bit beefier but it is nearly the same.
My question is: At what interval do you think I should place the fasteners at the side and the top of the toerail?
Yes, I have a glass hull but the decks are built like a glass over ply wood boat.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Toerail.jpg
Views:	1013
Size:	49.3 KB
ID:	1320  
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 12:35   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha again Delmarrey,
The toerail is aluminum. The original hull deck joint was just glass over and then a mahogany toerail. I didn't like that system because of the abrasion at the edges which sometimes would wear through the glass and let water in to delaminate the deck ply. I think the new system will be better. I'm just trying to put together mentally all that I need to do, drill the holes and get a bolts and screws order done.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 23:59   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Well, that's a new one on me!

It' looks as though the side screws are under a rubrail rubber, Y/N?

As for the spacing for the side I'd still stick with the 4" providing they go all the way thru. On the top I guess one would have to make that judgement for them self depending on the thickness of the material. Rubrails go any where from 2-6" depending on the manufacture.

Also, since your getting water in there, I'd lay a good bead of sealer under that corner of the toerail and let it ooz out when you tighten it down.

Is this picture above your actual system????
__________________
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2007, 12:04   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Yes, it is the actual system. There is a rubber strip that covers the screw or bolt heads.

I got hold of the old Cascade folks who are the new Chinook Composites, Corp.. They still answer questions. Their answer was thru bolt on eight inch centers staggering top and bottom bolts, meaning there would be a bolt every 4 inches (one from the top and 4" to the one from the side). I'll not be able to do that in all places because I have deck beam ends on the shelf which will definitely get in the way in a lot of areas where the bolt holes will fall.
The system is really strong. The newer Cascades use the toerail as chainplates and don't have "real" chainplates like I do.
I planned to slather the whole thing with 5200 and let it ooze out so I get some really good sealing and adhesion.
Thanks very much for your help. I learn stuff every day on this forum thanks to folks like you, Gord and Alan.
I like your recommendation for fisheries supply. They are great!!
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 15:46   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Installing Aluminum Toerals.
I'm hoping the fellow who posted about how to do it picks up on this one.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2008, 19:53   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
JohnL,

Just a thought: if you have or are planning to have a HF radio aboard...ham or marine...these toerails would make an ideal RF ground system. You might want to provide for connections to an antenna coupler.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2008, 17:00   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Thanks Bill,
I was thinking of that too. What type of connection would be necessary? Could I just bolt on?
Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2008, 17:20   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Yep, sure could. Best would probably be the shortest possible connection from your tuner ground lug to the toerail, using 3 or 4" wide copper strip. The heavier the better because of strength and longevity, not electrical properties. Just fold the end over a couple of times, punch a hole for the bolt, use a big washer, and tighten snugly.

It might be helpful also to do this in a place which is accessible so you can inspect the connection every now and then.

Would probably be useful also to connect both toerails if feasible, not necessarily as one continuous electrical length....two separate ones would be as good or better. Maybe you could run a copper strip from the tuner ground lug and under deck across the boat to the nearest place on the opposite toerail?

Cheers,

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2008, 21:09   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 232
I would through-bolt top AND sides every four inches (Staggered so that the top bolts were two inches away from the side bolts). I'd be tempeted to run backing strips the length of carling on the inboard and the under sides.
__________________

__________________
Sailormann is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anodized aluminum mast maintenance phorvati Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 16-02-2014 10:32
How Are Aluminum Hulls ? Badgerman Multihull Sailboats 21 09-11-2010 03:28
Hello : new aluminum cat buider need help? korvello Meets & Greets 6 28-12-2006 22:04
Canadian boatbuilder -- aluminum? jimbim Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 24-10-2006 12:37
Aluminum Finishes Sandero Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 27-04-2006 18:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.