Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-07-2016, 02:17   #31
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: mackay, queensland. australia
Boat: e.a jack (builder), g.l watson (designer), 6.2 mtr wll sailboat
Posts: 476
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

good question / lpg bottles can explode (blebby) they expand 200 times their volume very quickly / best stored on the pushpit / that said we seem to have an accumulation of 220gram butane gas aerosol type cylinders stored in all sorts of easily accessible places for the galley that are apparently perfectly safe to store amongst the condiments? I suppose no manual valving on the small cylinders makes them safer and less likely to build up vapour in the bilge
__________________

__________________
knockabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2016, 03:42   #32
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 18,227
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
You missed some ABYC recommendations -

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....A-01.1993.pdf

A dedicated locker is not the only place to put a tank -

LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, safety devices and
regulating equipment shall be secured for sea conditions
and readily accessible, and shall be located:
1.12.1 on the exterior of the boat where escaping gases
will flow directly overboard
, the cylinder valve, regulators,
and safety devices shall be in a ventilated location
protected from the weather and against mechanical
damage, or . . .

Sure, but on deck or on the rail hanging over the deck does not fulfill this requirement. If leaked gas flows out onto the deck, that's not "directly overboard" (and is obviously dangerous). The cylinder would have to be hung out over the side or over the transom -- as in the photograph above of someone's bracket -- in order for leaked gas to go "directly overboard".
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2016, 07:14   #33
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,491
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

This is one area where I think the ABYC regs are a bit convoluted. I had a surveyor advise me that a tank holder on the pushpit hanging over but elevated above the transom is unnacceptable as the heavier that air propane can be blown into the cockpit and when it fills that may seep over the bridge deck (same height as the transom) 8 ft away.

Meanwhile, according to regs, the overboard drain of a proper locker must be at least 20"away from a vessel opening, such as a port.

My position is that the propane, ventilated to open air, 8 feet from
The companionway, is much safer that the discharge concentrated from a proper drain terminating 20" above an opening port.
__________________
Rod Brandon
Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2016, 07:47   #34
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 18,227
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
This is one area where I think the ABYC regs are a bit convoluted. I had a surveyor advise me that a tank holder on the pushpit hanging over but elevated above the transom is unnacceptable as the heavier that air propane can be blown into the cockpit and when it fills that may seep over the bridge deck (same height as the transom) 8 ft away.

Meanwhile, according to regs, the overboard drain of a proper locker must be at least 20"away from a vessel opening, such as a port.

My position is that the propane, ventilated to open air, 8 feet from
The companionway, is much safer that the discharge concentrated from a proper drain terminating 20" above an opening port.
I think these are good points. What everyone should take away, I think, is that mechanically following ABYC is not enough -- common sense is also required.

Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2016, 10:53   #35
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,491
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think these are good points. What everyone should take away, I think, is that mechanically following ABYC is not enough -- common sense is also required.

Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.

Never underestimate the stupid things some people
may do. If you actually knew, you may never enter a marina (concentration of
floating bombs) again.

To me, it smells like the propane locker and fitting manufacturers may have had too much influence on the ABYC propane standards.

To the OP, you mentioned extending the hose. This doesn't comply, as the standards require a continuous one piece hose, but in practice, if the join is outside the boat, vented to atmosphere, and away from any entry into the boat, it should be fine (unless you need to pass a survey).
__________________
Rod Brandon
Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 05:29   #36
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 1,491
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence View Post
Not sure about having them on deck unprotected. Wouldn't the sun make them very hot? They would probably rust more easily also, as there will always be some spray from the sea.

I have bought a nice deck locker and installed it in front of the mast, see picture. As of now I use it for mooring lines and hoses, but I think I will put the unused gas bottles in there as well.

Attachment 128699
To be ABYC compliant, you cannot put anything else in a propane storage locker.
__________________
Rod Brandon
Sheen Marine
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 06:18   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,435
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

I am in the "Out" club. My 20# swap out canisters last about 6 months on the stern rail and have yet to rust.

My primary concern is the condition of the hose. It should be accessible for inspection and protected from damage.

I never leave the tank valve on when away from the boat.
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 06:37   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,154
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knockabout View Post
good question / lpg bottles can explode (blebby) they expand 200 times their volume very quickly / best stored on the pushpit / that said we seem to have an accumulation of 220gram butane gas aerosol type cylinders stored in all sorts of easily accessible places for the galley that are apparently perfectly safe to store amongst the condiments? I suppose no manual valving on the small cylinders makes them safer and less likely to build up vapour in the bilge
It's a BLEVE. Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion.

Those small bottles aren't safe to keep inside. Mine go in the locker with the large ones.
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 06:56   #39
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 15,364
Re: LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.

I have posted this before, but you would be amazed, when we were surveying my boat, we noticed that the PO had installed a back up bilge pump and a high water alarm, very smart, but then he T'd the pump discharge to the Propane locker drain hose, which of course had the effect of connecting the propane locker directly to the lowest portion of the bilge, and he paid a "Professional" to do it. He kept the receipt

It seems as if people just don't think about propane and it's possible problems?

I know many who will keep those little camping cylinder's below decks
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coming gas refil in the med, american bottles ventomacio Europe & Mediterranean 1 06-02-2016 14:05
Cooking gas bottles seanie20 Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 29-03-2012 06:16
Place for Gas Bottles Coachbolt61 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 29 13-01-2012 15:14
Filling Australian LPG Bottles in Indonesia ? surfmachine Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 02-08-2010 18:46
Filling French LP gas bottles in the USA gasmag Meets & Greets 4 26-07-2007 09:37


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.