LPG Gas Bottles in OR out?

[knockabout]

good question / lpg bottles can explode (blebby) they expand 200 times their volume very quickly / best stored on the pushpit / that said we seem to have an accumulation of 220gram butane gas aerosol type cylinders stored in all sorts of easily accessible places for the galley that are apparently perfectly safe to store amongst the condiments? I suppose no manual valving on the small cylinders makes them safer and less likely to build up vapour in the bilge

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cal40john

You missed some ABYC recommendations -

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....A-01.1993.pdf

A dedicated locker is not the only place to put a tank -

LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, safety devices and
regulating equipment shall be secured for sea conditions
and readily accessible, and shall be located:
1.12.1 on the exterior of the boat where escaping gases
will flow directly overboard, the cylinder valve, regulators,
and safety devices shall be in a ventilated location
protected from the weather and against mechanical
damage, or . . .

Sure, but on deck or on the rail hanging over the deck does not fulfill this requirement. If leaked gas flows out onto the deck, that's not "directly overboard" (and is obviously dangerous). The cylinder would have to be hung out over the side or over the transom -- as in the photograph above of someone's bracket -- in order for leaked gas to go "directly overboard".

[ramblinrod]

This is one area where I think the ABYC regs are a bit convoluted. I had a surveyor advise me that a tank holder on the pushpit hanging over but elevated above the transom is unnacceptable as the heavier that air propane can be blown into the cockpit and when it fills that may seep over the bridge deck (same height as the transom) 8 ft away.

Meanwhile, according to regs, the overboard drain of a proper locker must be at least 20"away from a vessel opening, such as a port.

My position is that the propane, ventilated to open air, 8 feet from
The companionway, is much safer that the discharge concentrated from a proper drain terminating 20" above an opening port.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

This is one area where I think the ABYC regs are a bit convoluted. I had a surveyor advise me that a tank holder on the pushpit hanging over but elevated above the transom is unnacceptable as the heavier that air propane can be blown into the cockpit and when it fills that may seep over the bridge deck (same height as the transom) 8 ft away.

Meanwhile, according to regs, the overboard drain of a proper locker must be at least 20"away from a vessel opening, such as a port.

My position is that the propane, ventilated to open air, 8 feet from
The companionway, is much safer that the discharge concentrated from a proper drain terminating 20" above an opening port.

I think these are good points. What everyone should take away, I think, is that mechanically following ABYC is not enough -- common sense is also required.

Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think these are good points. What everyone should take away, I think, is that mechanically following ABYC is not enough -- common sense is also required.

Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.

Never underestimate the stupid things some people
may do. If you actually knew, you may never enter a marina (concentration of
floating bombs) again.

To me, it smells like the propane locker and fitting manufacturers may have had too much influence on the ABYC propane standards.

To the OP, you mentioned extending the hose. This doesn't comply, as the standards require a continuous one piece hose, but in practice, if the join is outside the boat, vented to atmosphere, and away from any entry into the boat, it should be fine (unless you need to pass a survey).

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by SoundOfSilence

Not sure about having them on deck unprotected. Wouldn't the sun make them very hot? They would probably rust more easily also, as there will always be some spray from the sea.

I have bought a nice deck locker and installed it in front of the mast, see picture. As of now I use it for mooring lines and hoses, but I think I will put the unused gas bottles in there as well.

Attachment 128699

To be ABYC compliant, you cannot put anything else in a propane storage locker.

[Cap Erict3]

I am in the "Out" club. My 20# swap out canisters last about 6 months on the stern rail and have yet to rust.

My primary concern is the condition of the hose. It should be accessible for inspection and protected from damage.

I never leave the tank valve on when away from the boat.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by knockabout

good question / lpg bottles can explode (blebby) they expand 200 times their volume very quickly / best stored on the pushpit / that said we seem to have an accumulation of 220gram butane gas aerosol type cylinders stored in all sorts of easily accessible places for the galley that are apparently perfectly safe to store amongst the condiments? I suppose no manual valving on the small cylinders makes them safer and less likely to build up vapour in the bilge

It's a BLEVE. Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion.

Those small bottles aren't safe to keep inside. Mine go in the locker with the large ones.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Would a propane locker drain outlet be allowed OVER an opening port? It shouldn't be, but also no one should be so stupid as to do it that way.

I have posted this before, but you would be amazed, when we were surveying my boat, we noticed that the PO had installed a back up bilge pump and a high water alarm, very smart, but then he T'd the pump discharge to the Propane locker drain hose, which of course had the effect of connecting the propane locker directly to the lowest portion of the bilge, and he paid a "Professional" to do it. He kept the receipt

It seems as if people just don't think about propane and it's possible problems?

I know many who will keep those little camping cylinder's below decks