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Old 30-10-2013, 21:06   #1
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Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Hi everyone my name is Charley and I would like to know if any of you have completely rebuilt a sailboat of 30ft or less to cross oceans. If any of you have I would like your input. I have a buccaneer 250 that I have completely gutted out. I have removed the factory bulkheads and am installing new bulkheads in different locations and more of them. I am installing a compression post for the mast and relocating where the standing rigging attaches to the outside of the boat. I have removed the opening port windows and replacing them with fixed lexan. I would like to know of any areas that you have changed on your boat to make it stronger. I would like to know of any essential systems you feel a boat used to cross oceans needs. For the rest of you who have not rebuilt a boat to cross oceans please refrain from making comments as I am absolutely serious about what I am doing. Thanks for any legitimate input you may have.
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Old 30-10-2013, 21:15   #2
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Not sure what you define as rebuilt but I have done or assisted in major overhauls and structural repairs on boats of various sizes from 26' to 65'.

Nothing at all wrong with your project but may I suggest that the Buccaneer is not the best starting point for a boat to cross oceans. For the amount of time and work you will put into a rebuild of that magnitude why not start off with a better, basic hull. You can find some really good under 30' boats that would not require replacing or moving bulkheads for very cheap in today's market.
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Old 30-10-2013, 21:30   #3
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Skipmac are you familiar with the buccaneer 250 it different from some of the buccaneers I hear everyone saying are junk. People say that the hull and deck are just fastened with screws. This boats hull and deck are bolted and glued together. the hull is solid glass although lite and the deck is cored with 1/4 inch end grain balsa. I decided to move bulkheads for two reasons, one I didn't like the floor plan in the boat and two I have another larger boat that needs more bulkheads to even be safe coastal cruising. I have owned the other boat since new back in 1996 its a hunter h26. I have started this project already and have committed myself to finishing it with in the next year. After completion I will be sailing it to the Caribbean for a 1 yr sabbatical. So if you would please tell me anything that you feel I should do to make it safer while I have it apart I would greatly appreciate it
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Old 30-10-2013, 22:30   #4
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. You may not know your in a hole, but when two three , four people say your in a hole, your in a hole. There is a form of love called 'agape'. It means that one falls in love with an object of desire and loses all their rational faculties. You sound like a prime candidate for this wonderful syndrome. Me too! We all have this experience in common. For a great many of us, it is why we are here on this forum. There are also many of us who, after being bitten by 'agape', have become very wary. When we say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a corollary might be, functionality is in the eye of the survivor. If others respond to your post, rest assured they are going to repeat the same refrain. 'This is the wrong boat for your intended purpose'. You say, " I hear everyone saying are junk" the reason they keep saying that is, for an ocean going vessel, the boat is junk. Its a great river and bay boat. It will never be an ocean going boat. It was never designed to be one. When I was a lad I fell in love with a Luger 26. It was a kit boat. My Dad said it was junk. I resented him for a long while until I saw a 26 Cape Dory. Then I knew he was right, the difference was plain to anyone. Beware agape. Beware your attachment to 'this' boat. As Skipmac stated there are a lot of good ocean going boats available for very low dollars. Find one, put all the work and time in it and you will have a boat to take you where you want to go. Put it in this boat and the day will come when you will say, they told me so. My motives for throwing this out there is not to injure your dream or make you feel bad, or angry. Folks here are going to offer you some of the best advice available, for free. Back up and look long and hard. Read up on what makes a blue water boat. I'll bet you can find a proper boat for $5000, that needs to be rebuilt. I'm doing just that now with a 38' cutter for not much more than that. But then I don't kid myself on this point, it will take a whole lot more than I think it will,,,but I'm in love. Enjoy the dream, choose well and be safe.
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Old 30-10-2013, 23:07   #5
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

I did about 9000 miles in a 26 footer, and while I didnt have to do any structural changes to the boat, I did do some interior and exterior changes to make it more livable. The boat had a pretty conventional interior, with V-berths with a head in between, a hanging locker to stb, and settee berths in the main cabin. I could not see the need for 4 berths in a boat that small, so I cut out much of the stb V-berth and added a second hanging locker just forward of the original, for our weather gear">foul weather gear. I moved the head to the stb side in front of the new wet locker. That opened the boat up a bit, and still left the port V-berth to throw sails on. Oh yes, the galley(2 burner primus) was on the port side just forward of the main bulkhead. Basically in the forward cabin. In the main cabin, there was no table, so I built a swing down table that was about 4 inches thick to serve as dining and chart locker/table. On the outside of the boat, after a trip down, and back up the California coast, I built a boom gallows over the companionway, and built a spray dodger that used the gallows as part of its frame. The boat came equiped with 180 feet of 5/16 chain, and after some of the deep anchorages on the Calif coast, I installed a mechanical anchor windlass to make life easier. I removed the very tired diesel to rebuild it and liked the boat so well without it , that I left it out and removed the prop for better sailing performance. The boat had double backstays, so I sailed with an aluminum pole strapped across the backstays when we reached the tropics, to tie a make shift bimini from the dodger to the backstay. Also made a small removable table for the cockpit which we used all of the time at anchor. Sewed up an awning from mast to backstays, and a wind scoop for the forward hatch. Also sewed up weather clothes (spray clothes) for around the cockpit, and attached them with shock cord so a big wave would not flatten the stantions.There are many things that you can do to make a small boat safer and more livable. I hope I have given you a few ideas. _____Grant.
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Old 30-10-2013, 23:24   #6
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Krogensailor,
Great post!


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Old 31-10-2013, 06:58   #7
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Quote:
Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
Skipmac are you familiar with the buccaneer 250 it different from some of the buccaneers I hear everyone saying are junk. People say that the hull and deck are just fastened with screws. This boats hull and deck are bolted and glued together. the hull is solid glass although lite and the deck is cored with 1/4 inch end grain balsa. I decided to move bulkheads for two reasons, one I didn't like the floor plan in the boat and two I have another larger boat that needs more bulkheads to even be safe coastal cruising. I have owned the other boat since new back in 1996 its a hunter h26. I have started this project already and have committed myself to finishing it with in the next year. After completion I will be sailing it to the Caribbean for a 1 yr sabbatical. So if you would please tell me anything that you feel I should do to make it safer while I have it apart I would greatly appreciate it
I was not aware that there were different models of the Buccaneer so did a little research on the 250. It does look much different than the one I'm familiar with but it was still produced by Bayliner which does not have a reputation as a top notch builder. Without thoroughly inspecting the boat I really couldn't pass judgment on the suitability for serious ocean sailing or what it may or may not need to make it more sturdy but here's the areas I would check.

1. Hull. Overall structure, hull/deck joint, chainplate attachments especially forestay and back stay including overall rigidity and strength where all attach, keel attachment and keel/hull joint.

2. Steering. Rudder, rudder post, how the rudder is attached to the post, bearings and overall support of the post.

3. Rigging. Chainplates: size, attachment, bolts. All rigging inspected.

If your plans for the boat go no further than the Caribbean then even a lightly built boat may work. The longest hops between islands is about 100 miles so with great care to check the weather before each leg and great care as the captain to not stress the boat beyond what it can handle the trip can be made in most any boat.
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Old 31-10-2013, 09:04   #8
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Thanks Gjordan for you input I will be using a lot of your information. How well did you mange with out an auxiliary engine. I am planning on using 2 versions of minn kotas 101lbs thrust salt water trolling motors attached directly to the hull. I think I will only attain a maximum speed of 4.5 knots but should be able to go a couple days at 1 to 2 knots. I am going to be installing 6 deep cycle batteries,wind generator, 120 watt solar panels and a diesel generator. Also for strengthening the hull I am thinking of adding a balsa core to key areas. I know everyone is out theren laughing but I like working on things and making them better. I also know I will never get my investment back from this project. I once spent 30,000 building a custom motorcycle. When I sold the bike I only got 13,000 and everyone asked how I could take such a beating selling it like that. I told them that over the time I owned that motorcycle I got at least 20,000 worth of enjoyment from it.
Skipmac the hull to deck joint appears to be bolted every 4 inches and glued. The rudder post is 3 inch diameter with a .250 wall thickness, which I plan on sliding another tube down the inside for additional strength. The rudder post goes thru the hull and thru the deck, I think the boat would have to suffer serious damage before the rudder post failed. The rudder I suspect from what i can see is a fiberglass case molded around a welded frame and filled with foam. I am wondering about the bearings, it appears that bayliner used a wax impregnated rope wrapped around the rudder post for bearings. I am planning on changing to a plastic material with zirc fitting to inject a lubricant . As I have said the boat is down to the bare hull and deck. I am starting from scratch because I enjoy doing this sort of thing.
Any information on building the boat is greatly appreciated THANKS

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK I SHOULDN'T BUILD THIS BOAT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING THANK YOU
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Old 31-10-2013, 10:09   #9
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

You want the control the world of physics, and the rights of others to respond to a post on an open forum. OK, the picture is getting clearer. If you get forced fed enough humility over the next year, perhaps you will be interested/willing in sharing how all of this went. I for one will be more than willing to refrain from offering advice. This should be an excellent opportunity to learn. Good luck, save some money for life insurance and , please, don't take anyone with you. Peace
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Old 31-10-2013, 10:18   #10
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Too funny KS, esp about life ins. But people learn, usually the hard way.
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Old 31-10-2013, 10:18   #11
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Krogensailor there is a web page already for your enjoyment. charleysbigadventure.blogspot.com I am asking for help not criticism
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Old 31-10-2013, 10:35   #12
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

Your looking for one side of the equation. It's not all upside my friend, there is always an equal downside. Unwillingness to deal with the downside leads to blindness. As I said, good luck.
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Old 31-10-2013, 10:38   #13
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

The Buc 25 is a racing heritage hull. I believe it was Gary Mull designed. The molds for various designs like this were used by Bayliner, US Yacht and even Pearson over the years. It should be a good sailing boat, not necessarily an offshore design but certainly capable, if properly constructed, of doing the Bahamas etc.
Some of these well designed boats live in the shadow of the Bayliner/Buccaneer "floating condo" designs so often dissed when the name comes up. As such they can be a heck of a deal on the market.

*The only thing I would say is I feel you should have a strong bulkhead under the mast and chainplates.
*The rudder post seal is likely a stuffing box material "rope". That is a good system actually, so I wouldnt change that part anyway. FYI: most plastics are not compatible with grease... makes the plastic swell and bind.
*Almost all rudders are a stainless shaft with blades welded on then a fiberglass rudder attached over that and filled with foam. They are often filled with water over the years whether the boat carries an expensive name brand or an inexpensive name brand. If waterloggedthe rudder can be cleaned out, inspected and filled with epoxy/lightweight filler.
*Your 3" tube/shaft sounds substantial for that size boat.
Have fun! Many on this forum put way too much money into their boats than the value of their boat supports, whether it carries the Buccanneer name or not, so not sure why they feel they need to complain about you doing it.
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Old 31-10-2013, 11:11   #14
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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Originally Posted by trapoc View Post
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK I SHOULDN'T BUILD THIS BOAT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING THANK YOU
Sorry Trapoc, but Krogensailor nailed it, and it would not serve you well if it was not reiterated.

Find a proven bluewater boat that needs work and fall in love again.

First cut is the deepest...
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Old 31-10-2013, 11:24   #15
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Re: Living aboard a 25 ft while crossing oceans

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FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK I SHOULDN'T BUILD THIS BOAT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING THANK YOU
That kind of attitude is like going to the doctor and saying "Doc Don't tell me about the cancer I have or how it might kill me, only tell me what isn't wrong with me so I won't get upset"

I don't know your boat, I don't know you, and I don't know how safe your passage will be. From the sounds of it though you may need to do a little more research, gain some humility, and listen to responses when "You" ask for advice.

As far as if it can be done....well people set records rowing across the Atlantic, however it doesn't mean there is not tons of risk or that it should even be done.

Good luck to you, you're probably going to need it.
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