Is anybody else finding dealing with vendors has become difficult?

[GILow]

We are finally underway with our second refit and I have to say, it is proving much harder than the first.

Five or six years ago I did a major chunk of work on the old boat and it went well. The learning curve was pretty steep but the process of contacting vendors, selecting and ordering parts etc was fine. By far the slowest bit was me figuring out what we needed.

This time around I’m mostly clear on what I want but the vendors are really weird.

Some have been terrific and pretty much the entire drive train from engine to prop and everything in between was sorted in a few phone calls.

But others have been a nightmare. The sailmaker who was brilliant last time led me on a game of follow-up emails for months before some kind of major brain fart where I was issued an invoice for sails I didn’t want. Six other sailmakers either didn’t respond to my request for quotes at all or responded by quoting on sails nothing like I’d asked for.

The furler mob have taken weeks of phone calls and pleading emails just to get them to issue an invoice for the staysail furler.

The rigging guys I used last time are off the cards already because when I contacted them last year for a mates boat they led me on a one month run around trying to get prices before telling me they weren’t really doing those rigging parts any more.

Is this an Aussie thing? Or is it happening everywhere?

[Jammer]

I too am finding that previously reliable vendors are too busy and are therefore unresponsive and, in some cases, sloppy.


In several cases an older generation of yard operators, sailmakers, and riggers is approaching retirement and there is a handoff of some kind taking place. Quite a few of them were born in the 1950s, established their businesses in the 1970s, and are now looking to retire.

[coopec43]

I'm finding it difficult too but I put it down to the time of the year and as a result they are too busy.

I'm trying to get LPG installed and in my efforts to find a qualified gas fitter I mistakenly contacted a guy on the other side of Australia (QLD). He declined to take my job on but suggested I contact my local boat broker. I did that and was given a name who I contacted. He said he'd love to do it but he was "flat out". He gave me a name of an associate who I have yet to make contact with.

I contacted another guy regarding sail bags/Lazy Jacks about a month ago. He came back to me apologizing for the delay. (But his quote was quite acceptable)

I am finding there are plenty of unscrupulous tradesmen out there ready to fleece you.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I too am finding that previously reliable vendors are too busy and are therefore unresponsive and, in some cases, sloppy.


In several cases an older generation of yard operators, sailmakers, and riggers is approaching retirement and there is a handoff of some kind taking place. Quite a few of them were born in the 1950s, established their businesses in the 1970s, and are now looking to retire.

This struck two chords with me.

Sloppy - really good description. Simple careless mistakes in quoting have driven me nuts. Even the sailmaker I eventually went with, who are a big loft and were friendly and responsive, made some utterly daft mistakes in quoting. So much so that I’m going to be really nervous until the sails arrive and I measure what they’ve made.

Generational change - in a few cases I’ve felt like I’m dealing with someone who is really more comfortable down on the floor in production, not in sales or the business side. One of the vendors of a really good product were driving me crazy with their erratic responses until the business owner stepped in. I’m not sure what alarm bells I triggered with all my emails and phone messages but it’s clear that the nice knowledgeable technical guy I had been dealing with was way out of his depth once it got to the sales side of the job.

[Toccata]

I am doing a major/total refit of a Stuart 47 The interior is stripped out, mast removed, sails and engine replacement.
The primary issue is to find the best suppliers, then start the design/specification ordering process.
I can say with "hand on heart" that I have had no trouble on any of these fronts. I guess as long as you are prepared to work to the suppliers timetable, and are quite specific with your requests, I suspect all will be fine.
The above includes having plywood veneered with a specific timber species, mast designed and supplied, engine supplied to specifications, including a feathering propeller specified and quoted (not yet ordered).
The reduced number of suppliers requires better lead time planning on our part as consumers.
I'm happy to name (and endorse) all the suppliers I have used, perhaps correct protocol would be to pm me.

[Tupaia]

Generation Z problem, overly concerned about their mental health, are off sick or on paternity leave. Who would want to be in business having to employ such individuals.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Toccata

I am doing a major/total refit of a Stuart 47 The interior is stripped out, mast removed, sails and engine replacement.
The primary issue is to find the best suppliers, then start the design/specification ordering process.
I can say with "hand on heart" that I have had no trouble on any of these fronts. I guess as long as you are prepared to work to the suppliers timetable, and are quite specific with your requests, I suspect all will be fine.
The above includes having plywood veneered with a specific timber species, mast designed and supplied, engine supplied to specifications, including a feathering propeller specified and quoted (not yet ordered).
The reduced number of suppliers requires better lead time planning on our part as consumers.
I'm happy to name (and endorse) all the suppliers I have used, perhaps correct protocol would be to pm me.

You make it sound so simple but you are doing a refit (as is Matt)You had all the gear to start with. I had nothing to start with so I found it quite a bit harder to plan methodically.

[Toccata]

Cooper 43. I'm not sure if your taking the p... out of me or need a hand with the bleedin obvious....There only a restricted number of options for each decision point.
eg: the engine kw requirements, answer will be in the plans
mast/rig design will be in the plans
Electrical fit out is probably where the biggest number/range of options are presented.
Break the boat into systems or areas, work methodically through each system and the materials required will become obvious. Then ask around for the best supplier.
Plan well ahead of where you are actually up to, allow time for delivery.....then screw it all together!
Probably easier near major centres on the East Coast of Aus. I'm remote so need to allow more time for delivery.
Skilled assistance is probably a bigger issue.
eg; there's only one marine electrician here. No point asking for a quote and checking against other prices, You just have to develop a relationship and work together with the available resources.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Toccata

Cooper 43. I'm not sure if your taking the p... out of me or need a hand with the bleedin obvious....There only a restricted number of options for each decision point.
eg: the engine kw requirements, answer will be in the plans
mast/rig design will be in the plans
Electrical fit out is probably where the biggest number/range of options are presented.
Break the boat into systems or areas, work methodically through each system and the materials required will become obvious. Then ask around for the best supplier.
Plan well ahead of where you are actually up to, allow time for delivery.....then screw it all together!
Probably easier near major centres on the East Coast of Aus. I'm remote so need to allow more time for delivery.
Skilled assistance is probably a bigger issue.
eg; there's only one marine electrician here. No point asking for a quote and checking against other prices, You just have to develop a relationship and work together with the available resources.

No I'm not trying to take the pi$$ out of you. I was wondering how you managed to plan so well and no I didn't "have a restricted number of options for each decision point" WOW!

From day one I decided the yacht had to pass a survey so that I could get insurance and be allowed to enter any Australian marina.

When I started I had decide the hull material - aluminum, steel, solid fiber glass or cored fiberglass. Once I decided to build a cored hull I had to decide the type of core. Decisions, decisions, decisions!

Then I had to decide what auxiliary engine/gear box ratio/prop diameter and pitch., fuel tanks, starting batteries, HD 24V Alternator, house batteries, solar panels, lightning protection .....

Then I had to work out the steering system, winches (sheet/anchor/halyard), the toilet/macerator/blackwater tank.

I won't go on........

It is difficult to plan ahead when you have to make decisions as you go! . Cheers

[Benz]

To be fair to the vendors and tradesmen, their supply chain was busted with the Pandemic and the Suez Canal fiasco, and has never fully recovered. Some outfits went under completely, and the void is filling only slowly. For a while, a shortage of black Technora set rope orders back more than six months; people have not returned to jobs lost during the shutdowns, and new hires just aren't as competent yet.
Inflation has hiked raw material prices throught the roof, so everyone's expectations have to be adjusted--I had a hard enough time convincing customers of value BEFORE all this; now I cringe sending out a quote for nearly anything, and have to add a caveat that the material may not be quickly available.
Right now I'm waiting for a spool of rope from Europe because the local rope mill is behind on manufacturing as all their workers went to work for Amazon.....

[Tin Tin]

Yes, not just in boats, but housing, cars, travel - you name it.

[kayakerChuck]

I'm one of those vendors.

What Benz said, plus finding and keeping employees is basically impossible right now.

I now need to price out the parts for pretty much every job, which raises my time, prices, and stress significantly. In 2019, I just used a standard quote sheet.

I tend to try to stay in the high end of the market. But- I've been doing plenty of work on cheap boats. It took me a bit to learn how much more time it takes to work on old, low end boats, which did mess up my calendar.

(In the past few years, I've put a disturbing number of $5,000 canvas jobs on $2,000 boats. Now I add about 30% to these jobs, which is about what it takes to keep my pay rate the same as working on decent boats.)

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

I tend to try to stay in the high end of the market.

I sense that the large influx of new boaters during COVID, many of them revitalizing older boats, has changed the market makeup somewhat.


I wonder whether there are a greater number of less pleasant jobs to be done and whether this is a factor in marinas retaining mechanical help. Sanitation hoses, tankage replacements, fixing plumbing in tight quarters, rebedding deck hardware, not as fun and rewarding as an electronics refit or engine replacement.

[Kettlewell]

Nothing has changed--they have always been difficult! This comes as a huge shock to many buying boats for the first time, and leads to many not sticking with it. Those few who do offer good service are worth going out of your way to patronize. One small example from about 40 years ago. I purchased a used boat that was located out of the water at a major boatyard that later went on to become a part of one of the largest chains of boatyards. Included in the sales contract was a clause that the boatyard was responsible for de-winterizing the engine and making sure it was running properly. We picked up the boat in the water and all seemed to be working well, except the boat seemed to have no power in forward, but plenty in reverse. We chalked it up to learning the new boat and proceeded to motor a few miles until thick smoke suddenly began pouring out of the cabin. I madly rushed around in the smoke, opening up lockers, etc., shutting down the electrics, only to discover there was a red-hot wire laying across the engine block shorting out and burning all of its insulation. In commissioning the engine someone had pulled that wire down from above and left it laying on the engine, and it was unfused for some reason! The worst damage was the red-hot wire burnt through the corner of a spare sail. It turns out the reason for the strange power problem in forward was that the prop was left handed instead of right handed, put on by the boatyard! When moving forward the transmission was actually in reverse. Lesson learned. Never trust any boatyard to do proper work!

[hpeer]

Roughly 30 years ago Beth and Evans set out on their journey. Beth writes their FIRST lesson was that because you pay good money for professional work does not mean you get professional work for your good money. It may happen, but guaranteed.

I find this holds on every endeavor, from boats to cars to hospitals.