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Old 22-11-2013, 12:02   #166
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

So the Saugeen Witch design features a lovely, swooping sheer line, a high gunwhale and generously wide side decks. These features make moving around and working on deck like a walk in the park. They make boarding from a dinghy or low dock an easy step up without a ladder. They contribute to the boat's very poor stability when inverted. All this is very wonderful.

What is not wonderful about these features, is the lack of space down below that they promote. There is simply not enough vertical dimension between the cabin sole and the underside of the side decks. If the settee's are build low enough so that ones head clears the side decks, then the seat height is only a couple inches above the floor.

My father built and rebuilt the saloon table and settee's three times before settling on the arrangement in the first picture. It was the arrangement that he had for is one year trip to Mexico. It worked pretty good for two people. One person could sit comfortably at the forward end of the table and one could sit at the aft end. Unfortunately, only a tiny contortionist would be comfortable sitting along the port side of the table with the side deck jammed into their neck. The starboard settee was too low to be comfortable and to far away from the table even if it was. At night the table was lowered to create a very generously sized double bed. Nice for two people to sleep in but a problem if one person wants to wake up early and convert the bed back to a table. Keep in mind that Panope has always had a mast directly in the center of her V-birth so that spot is no option for a frisky couple.

Pic #1 - The arrangement that my father settled on.

Pic #2 - Torn out table and settee. 50 gallon water tank under.

Pic #3 - New design has generous storage under featuring a place for the dinghy oars and boat hook. These items had been stored on the V-birth previously.

Pic #4 - I use cheap, doorskin ripped into narrow strips and hot-melt-glue gun to make patterns for large complicated shapes.

Pic #5 - The new sleeping area will be about 4 inches narrower than previous.

A traditional fold down table will hinge off the forward saloon bulkhead. The table will be narrow (12 inches) but will have a fold over leaf that will allow a person seated on the starboard settee to eat comfortably. The starboard settee will also be rebuilt higher and inboard but will not convert to a double bunk. Larger, permanent storage will be built behind.

The port settee will have a back-rest that folds up when used as a double bunk. When the back-rest is in the down position, a large temporary storage area will hold sails and other bulky items.

Steve
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Old 24-11-2013, 04:46   #167
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

I like that beer holder. The devil's always in the details.

I'm a big fan of strips of cheap ply and a glue gun to mock up panels, too. Much easier and faster than spiling, for me anyways.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:53   #168
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Port Settee.

Pic #1,2 - Cutouts along bottom of backrest allow seat storage lids to be removed without lifting backrest.

Pic #3 - Backrest is hinged along a spit in the rear shelf. This arrangement gives a little more headroom when sleeping. Unfortunately, this "split shelf" arrangement means that the shelf can only be used for soft items like coats and life jackets.

Pic #4,5 - Finally, a place for the head sails, vacuum and oars.

Pic #6 - The old cushions will be reused. The seat portion does not need to be modified. The backrest cushions will be re-cut to a height and length that will allow them to also be used as birth cushions when the settee is converted to a double birth.

Steve
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Old 08-12-2013, 13:21   #169
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Pic # 1 - Starboard Settee torn out.

Pic # 2 - Must keep heat going no matter what.

Pic # 3 - Typical condition of raw, uncoated, below decks aluminum (hull constructed 1976).

Steve
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Old 08-12-2013, 14:05   #170
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

I like the heater! All I've got in mine is a propane radiant heater and one of those kerosene blast furnaces, but both are direct vent.

I'm glad to see that bare aluminum. I've got a bunch of new 6061 floor supports to put in and I wasn't sure if coatings were recommended or even necessary. It's good to see how well that's held up.

Any idea what the foam is? I've been looking at DIY closed cell spray kits.

Cheers,
Q
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Old 08-12-2013, 19:26   #171
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

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Originally Posted by q240z View Post
I like the heater! All I've got in mine is a propane radiant heater and one of those kerosene blast furnaces, but both are direct vent.

I'm glad to see that bare aluminum. I've got a bunch of new 6061 floor supports to put in and I wasn't sure if coatings were recommended or even necessary. It's good to see how well that's held up.

Any idea what the foam is? I've been looking at DIY closed cell spray kits.

Cheers,
Q
Hi Q.

The only coating that Panope received on her interior metal (besides the foam) was in her keel prior to installing the lead and poured concrete ballast. The bilge areas that did not receive ballast are un-coated and look fine - just a surface discoloration and a bit of the white powder in spots. I did find a shallow corrosion divot on the extreme bottom of her keel where the puddle of nuisance water would collect. Probably caused by a piece of copper wire or something.

I have read that it is not recommended to apply foam below the water line and certainly not in the bilges as the foam may absorb moisture and become waterlogged. Panope does have foam below the waterline but not in her keel - no issues. I think your uncoated floor supports of 6061 should be fine.

Panope has very little condensation. Not sure if this is because of our climate, the quality of her insulation or the way we used the boat (not live aboard and no inside shower). I could imagine a "sweaty" boat having some problems if the insulation was not bonded well to the metal and moisture was allowed to be trapped between.

No idea what the foam is made of. Occasionally I need to add small bits of foam and I have used the spray foam in aerosol cans from the hardware store. It is handy but it does not stick to the raw aluminum nearly as well as the original foam. Definitely not practical for large areas.

Here is a shot of Panope's bilge. This area of the keel is filled to the brim with lead and concrete. The frames and floors are extrusions and I assume are 6061. The Ink markings are from her original build.


Steve
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:57   #172
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Very nice work. Handsome vessel.
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Old 13-12-2013, 03:57   #173
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Indeed, snaggletooth, she is a beaut!

Steve, thanks for the info. It's interesting to see how things work out in real life when engineers (both armchair and the real ones) insist certain things are absolutely verboten.

Cheers,
Q
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Old 14-12-2013, 14:17   #174
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Pic # 1 - Starboard settee roughed in. Mocked up table. Table will have a spit down the middle and a hinge so that the starboard half can fold up and on top of the port half. Moving forward to the head or fore peak is a little tight with the table opened up full size.

I am undecided on hinging the table to the bulkhead so the whole contraption can be lifted up and out of the way. Sure would be a lot easier to build (and stronger too) if I build it in solid. Do people that have fold up tables actually use this feature or are the tables left in the down position all the time?

Pic # 2 - The first time that a human being as been comfortable while sitting in Panope"s saloon.

Steve
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:36   #175
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Re: Happiness is a warm spool gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Oh, Here is my spool gun. It is a Miller 30A. It is very robust. I have dropped it from great heights may times. Indestructible.

Welding power supply is a Miller XMT 304. Plenty of power for boat building.

Steve
Hi Steve, Very inspired by your work and and I am just starting to think seriously about the modifications to my 40 foot aluminium boat. I went into welding shops the other day looking for spool gun welders. Was wondering what sort of amps you need for most of the welding you are doing. I need to do some major cockpit modifications and all the usual cleats, bow rollers and maybe some sort of low pilothouse/ dodger. I saw a nice compact 200 amp welder that had a spool gun attachment, would that be up to the task of the sort of work you have done?

Cheers

Ben
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:53   #176
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Re: Happiness is a warm spool gun

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Hi Steve, Very inspired by your work and and I am just starting to think seriously about the modifications to my 40 foot aluminium boat. I went into welding shops the other day looking for spool gun welders. Was wondering what sort of amps you need for most of the welding you are doing. I need to do some major cockpit modifications and all the usual cleats, bow rollers and maybe some sort of low pilothouse/ dodger. I saw a nice compact 200 amp welder that had a spool gun attachment, would that be up to the task of the sort of work you have done?

Cheers

Ben
Hey Ben, long time no hear!

On my welder, I set voltage manually and the amperage varies. When I stop welding, the amperage that was being used is displayed for a moment and if I am quick, (and think to take a look) I will see the amperage. The point I am trying to make is that I don't really know what amperage I am normally using.

This morning, I did some welding on some very thick material (1/2") and took a look the welding amperage. It was showing about 185 amps. The welds were not quite fully penetrated. This material and corresponding power setting is much bigger than what I normally use on Panope. My guess is that my typical 1/4" and 3/16" material is requiring less than 150 amps.

My welder is rated at 300 amps if wired 3 phase. and 225 amps if wired 1 phase. Both ratings at 60% duty cycle. My welder is wired 1 phase. I would say that for 99% of what I have done on Panope, my welder is over-size. In fact, during this 14 year rebuild, The internal cooling fan has only come on once. For 10 years I worried that the fan was broken, so it was a relief when it finally came on during 20 minute period of welding 1/4" material at 95% duty cycle.

I think a 200 amp machine will be fine as long is its rated duty cycle will meet your needs.

Very nice to see you back on the forum.

Steve
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Old 06-01-2014, 18:17   #177
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Saloon Table.

Up to this point I have worked in isolation with virtually all of Panope's modifications and "improvements" coming from my own head. For the saloon table project, I received significant design input from a group of tremendously talented and experienced individuals including one whom is possibly the most highly regarded sailing yacht designer alive today. Here is the result.

Pic #1,2 - I made dozens of drawings before finalizing the design.

Pic #3 - Pipe leg in stowed position up against forward bulkhead. fabricated from 3 inch schedule 80 pipe. The stuff runs 3 1/2 inch diameter with 5/16 " wall thickness. I put internal gussets of 1/2" plate in the angle joints.

Pic #4 - Pivot pad (leg half) of 1/2" plate.

Pic #5 - Pivot pad (table half) of 1/2" plate rosette welded to a larger plate of 3/16". Mounting screws bury into table top only 3/4" - hence the large number of them. Securing bolt is 5/8" fine thread. A wing handle will be welded to the bolt head to allow adjustment and removal without tools.

Pic #6 - Table top made of 1/2" scrap plywood that was left over from the settee benches. Black Formica covers top and bottom. An edge trim/fiddle of 3/8" oak will wrap around perimeter.

Pic #7 - Place settings for 5. Person at aft end position will sit on a portable stool (bucket).

Pic #8 - Upper pivot bracket fabricated from 3/16" plate.

Pic #9 - underside of pivot bracket. Fiction mechanism bolt will get wing-handle or knurled knob.

Pic #10 - Pivot bearing cut from UHMW.

Pic #11 - This position of the table will be used most of the time. One has access to the forward cabin/head.

Pic #12 - This position is best when a group is eating. Table is pivoted 180 degrees (pivot is not in center of table so pivoting moves table fore and aft about 1 foot) and leg is swung inboard equal distant from settee's. I sat on the extreme aft edge for the table (I weigh 160 lbs) and the table deflected downward 1 inch.

The table can be moved completely out of the way by removing from the pipe leg and stowing the table flat, on the forward bulkhead. Pivot bolt passed through bulkhead (from head) to secure.

This as been a very fun project. I little over-kill in weight (50 lbs) and perhaps a little to "industrial" for some - but I like it - a lot.

Steve
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Old 06-01-2014, 18:22   #178
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Pic #1 - Here is a shot of the Pipe leg in the Upper Pivot Bracket. Lower pivot socket will be a chunk of oak, screwed to the floor.

Pic #2 - Table swung all the way to port in case someone needs to do some dancing or other extracurricular activities.

Steve
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Old 06-01-2014, 18:56   #179
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Steve - brilliant design. And I love the "industrial look". Clean, elegantly simple and purposeful
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Old 06-01-2014, 20:10   #180
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Re: Happiness is a Warm Spool Gun

Steve, that does look nice. Please keep us updated here -- you've got a lot of interested people following your progress.

Have I mentioned that you are making me want to learn how to weld?
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