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Old 11-04-2009, 23:13   #1
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Building a Booth / Settee

I drew it up and would appreciate any comments.
I have both considerations and constraints.
  • I'm 5' 8" and my wife is 5' and not overly heavy.
  • I'm also stuck in between two bulkheads and it was TIGHT.
  • I will use 4" foam.
  • It will be situated so that we (maybe only me) can see out of the portholes while at the table.
  • I wanted the table this size so I can do charting on it.
  • The table will drop to make a Berth.
I have attached my drawing (not entirely complete).
Sure glad I drew it. I think it will work.

Let me know what you think.
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Old 11-04-2009, 23:55   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extemporaneous View Post
I drew it up and would appreciate any comments.
I think you are going to find it a bit tight. You'll have just under 1'-5" between the back of the seat and the edge of the table. Minus the foam, say you only use 3", that's just under 14". Maybe not so big of an issue for two as you can have one leg off the bench but if you have guests it might be a real challenge getting in and out.
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:30   #3
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Those are roughly the dimensions of the dinette on a Westsail 32. See if you can find one in your area to have a look at. It will give you a much better idea in your area. The W32 worked with 3" foam but doubt that it would work as a dinette with any thicker foam. The W32 also had straight seat backs which made for more leg room. I would try and go with an angled seat back, however, as the straight seat backs on the W32 dinette were not comfortable for very long.

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Old 12-04-2009, 01:40   #4
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Maybe not a chart table...

I built something similar into Boracay. Some comments:-
1) I can't see how a anything like a full size chart will fit. My table in a 6'8" (back of seat to back of seat) space will never be able to take a chart.
2) If you can do without the 1" top to the seats it will be more comfortable.
3) I used a pedestal from my chandler for the table - saved a lot of work.
4) Mine ended up quite comfortable. I think I used a little more rake on the seats and they ended up looking way too low. However with the 4" foam on top it was just about right.
5) You don't say how long the seats will be. I wish I had made mine long enough to lie on. Maybe in the next building cycle...

If you would like any measurements or photos from my still partly incomplete lounge/dinette let me know.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:07   #5
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There is a good book called Practical Sailor's Handbook , I had a copy a few moves ago. I used it several times to do what your doing. It gave all the standard dimensions that should be used in interior design. I wish I still had mine as I plan to do some mods.
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:47   #6
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The reference book
Time-saver Standards for Interior Design and Space Planning ~ by Joseph De Chiara, Julius Panero, Martin Zelnik

Time-saver Standards for Interior ... - Google Book Search

Has Banquette Design Critreria (dimensions etc) beginning on page 356:

Time-saver Standards for Interior ... - Google Book Search
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:20   #7
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Is this meant to be a chart table as well? That would have some bearing on the dimensions of the table top. 3'-1" is quite wide and generous for dining and this could be made a bit smaller. If you keep it wide you can have storage in the pedestal (accessible from thru the table top)... or a recess to hold plates or glasses.

The seat depth should be about 20" but not less than 18. And allow 18" from seat back to edge of table. 18 - 20" seat height. Table height can be 28-30. Use the bottom of the seats for storage.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:25   #8
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If I read your drawing correctly, 4 3/4 " of the table top edges will rest on the seat bench to support it when dropped to a berth. You will then have a bump the thickness of the table, are you planning that the 4" cushion will absorb this transition when used as a berth or will you level this off in another way?

I'm also guessing that you've calculated that the berth length 4" up will accomodate your 5' 8" frame. This will work for you, but I'd try to squeeze a little more length out of it. Maybe you can return the sloped backrest higher instead of sloping it all the way to the seat?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:32   #9
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Another drawing view and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post
I think you are going to find it a bit tight. You'll have just under 1'-5" between the back of the seat and the edge of the table. Minus the foam, say you only use 3", that's just under 14". Maybe not so big of an issue for two as you can have one leg off the bench but if you have guests it might be a real challenge getting in and out.
I agree but am choosing to call it cozy. In the process of building it, I could decrease the table from 3' 1" width if I have to, but with the bulkheads and the decreases I've already made to the conventional booth measurements, it will be tough to do much more with the benches.
Beyond that the setup could be a sort of fitness gauge for the crew.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Those are roughly the dimensions of the dinette on a Westsail 32. See if you can find one in your area to have a look at. It will give you a much better idea in your area. The W32 worked with 3" foam but doubt that it would work as a dinette with any thicker foam. The W32 also had straight seat backs which made for more leg room. I would try and go with an angled seat back, however, as the straight seat backs on the W32 dinette were not comfortable for very long.
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I'll see if I can find one. I'm thinking the rake in the seat back will be very important regarding comfort in this obviously tight booth configuration. I also put a fair back slope at the foot location (under one's calves) to try to give more room for peoples feet.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
I built something similar into Boracay. Some comments:-
1) I can't see how a anything like a full size chart will fit. My table in a 6'8" (back of seat to back of seat) space will never be able to take a chart.
2) If you can do without the 1" top to the seats it will be more comfortable.
3) I used a pedestal from my chandler for the table - saved a lot of work.
4) Mine ended up quite comfortable. I think I used a little more rake on the seats and they ended up looking way too low. However with the 4" foam on top it was just about right.
5) You don't say how long the seats will be. I wish I had made mine long enough to lie on. Maybe in the next building cycle...

If you would like any measurements or photos from my still partly incomplete lounge/dinette let me know.
Most of my charts are 46" x 33". I guess I don't know all the chart sizes. For sure though, this will be the best I could do.
I don't understand what you are saying in your point # 2. Can you say it a different way, thanks. As for the support of the table, I'm not sure which way I'm going to go yet. Could be a pedestal or a combination of double acting hinge (2 of them) on the starboard hull side (haven't finalized this as I want to make a higher table also) and a swinging bracket mounted around the compression post to give the table support and stability. That swinging bracket would swing out and become a small night table when the main table is in the down position to become a berth. Not sure if I can explain that clearly? The table is generally 4' long however it is actually longer (too hard for me to draw) toward the hull side in the non uniform area.
Photo's and measurement would be EXCELLENT!
Thanks.

Lancerbye and Gord:
I have read a bunch of material on booths and have been taking my measuring tape to restaurants (get some funny looks sometimes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
Is this meant to be a chart table as well? That would have some bearing on the dimensions of the table top. 3'-1" is quite wide and generous for dining and this could be made a bit smaller. If you keep it wide you can have storage in the pedestal (accessible from through the table top)... or a recess to hold plates or glasses.

The seat depth should be about 20" but not less than 18. And allow 18" from seat back to edge of table. 18 - 20" seat height. Table height can be 28-30. Use the bottom of the seats for storage.
Yes, I'm hoping to be able to charting on it (with my rotring rotring - drawingtable ). I may put a recessed compartment in it (we'll see). I have to be careful as I have left the table pretty low (once I add 4" foam) for chart work and the knee room for people opposite to each other is tight. I do know/have read the typical/general dimensions for a booth and am hoping that my compromises will be acceptable.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post
If I read your drawing correctly, 4 3/4 " of the table top edges will rest on the seat bench to support it when dropped to a berth. You will then have a bump the thickness of the table, are you planning that the 4" cushion will absorb this transition when used as a berth or will you level this off in another way?

I'm also guessing that you've calculated that the berth length 4" up will accommodate your 5' 8" frame. This will work for you, but I'd try to squeeze a little more length out of it. Maybe you can return the sloped backrest higher instead of sloping it all the way to the seat?
What I don't have drawn yet is how the seat back and bottom will work. Both will be cut so they are on the inside of the vertical elements and the seat bottom will be on ledgers. The seat back may go on double acting piano hinges at the top with the bottom locking into place (on the seat back angle) or swinging into the space between the vertical sides. With the double acting hinge it could also swing up horizontally (both seats) and become part of a higher table (stand up) to work on sails or engine parts (like a work bench).
The seat bottoms (on a ledger) would normally be slid toward the center (under your knees) and locked in place when the table is setup. When it becomes a berth, the seat bottom will slide back (toward the seat back) so the table top would have the required recess to become flat. That said, I do realize that the seat bottom will have to be at least 3/4" short to do this and so will not connect to the seat back. This will normally be in under the 4" seat back foam. Also I have tried to make the geometry so that the cushions equal the berth length. The 3 1/4" (4" - 3/4") space at the head and foot of the berth (when the seat back is swung into the void space between the vertical sides) will have to be padded with round tube type clothes storage bags (got this idea from another thread ).

That's where I'm at so far. I know it's not optimum, but I'm hoping it will work, either that or I'll have to sell my boat and buy a bigger one, that would likely have problems too. Probably be too small for the exercise room I would then need.

Something I missed telling everyone. When looking at the drawing, your looking to starboard so it may be running differently than what you are thinking?
Comments?
Anything ABSOLUTELY unacceptable?

Everything I touch seams to be SO complicated .

Thanks all,
Extemp.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:48   #10
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Quote:
Beyond that the setup could be a sort of fitness gauge for the crew.
Cetainly a good gauge of slimness.
Quote:
I don't understand what you are saying in your point # 2. Can you say it a different way, thanks.
I think he meant 3" of foam, not 4".
Quote:
Anything ABSOLUTELY unacceptable?

Everything I touch seams to be SO complicated .
No, you're just planning. That's usually good.
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Old 12-04-2009, 16:04   #11
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You have left 5'6" for sleeping and you are 5'8"? Unless you like to sleep in the fetal position, this isn't going to work out very well. People take up about 6" more than their height when sleeping. I'm 6'1.5" and find a 6'4" berth to be a tad short sometimes. I suggest you lay flat on the floor and measure your self relaxed with your toes pointed out at a 45 degree angle. and then add 2 inches top n bottom.

You might be able to make it with this arrangement if you delete the sloping seat backs and just go with a narrow shoulder pad against either bulkhead. My Grampion was a tad short and that worked fine for me. I think that building the back rests so they swing flush might work. I'd just go for something simpler.

Also the overlap of table top on seat top should be changed. I under stand why you want to do it, but it will make things very tight. Perhaps if you made the table top fit into a recess on either side, you could put a hinged plate that swings up to fill the recess when the table is up so the cushions will have a flat surface. No cushion will be able to adapt to the change in surface as you have it without the sleeper feeling it forever.

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Old 12-04-2009, 16:09   #12
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Point #2

2) I only suggested this to try and squeeze in every last millimetre of room.

4) I did use 4" foam. Came with the boat. 3" foam would also work but you might need fancier foam.

I'll second the suggestion about making the seat backs more of a dog leg, so that the bottom 5" or so is vertical. Look at the back of a really comfortable lounge chair and you'll see what I mean.

I surprise myself with the number of times I lie down for a little snooze (must be getting old).

One of the reasons I like to use cheap materials is that I enjoy experimenting.

I don't think that the human mind is designed to handle compound angles and planes. If you can mock it up it will all seem simpler (though the construction will become harder). Don't forget to stretch your legs out in the mock up to check that you can lightly brace yourself against the opposite seat.
Another advantage of the mock up is that you can discuss it with any "significant other" crew. This is the piece of furniture on the boat that will be used the most.

If you need some motivation remember those time that you have been on boat settees with straight backs. Even some of the best designed boats don't seem to get it totally right.

Please tell me what measurements you need. I'll get some photos next time I go to the boat.
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Old 12-04-2009, 17:23   #13
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Talking

I have built 2 settees, the last one on my cat. I have found that what fit best for me was to slant the seatbacks 10 degrees the and toe-in on the bottom panel 10 degrees, the seat 18" deep, if using 4 " foam add 4" to the seat depth as for height 18 to 20" generally foam that is 3 to 4 is good.
This is how mine is built and its very comfortable.
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Old 12-04-2009, 21:16   #14
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I did my best to describe with words what I was doing, but words and me don't always get along.
I did up a little drawing which I hope will show the way the seat back, seat bottom, and the table work together when being used as a table/settee and also as a berth.
The seat back has just over 8 degrees of back slope and the usable berth length will be 6 foot 2 inches.

Let me know if the drawing makes any more sense than my words.

I have another question that I haven't been able to find any info on, that I would use your help on. Keep in mind that I'm making this to any building code. So here it is.
What do you think the minimum head room one could live with when sitting at the table?

Best regards,
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Old 13-04-2009, 06:04   #15
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This is a clearer drawing. You seem to have solved the two concerns that I had: berth length, and having the table top sit flush when in berth mode.

I had a dinette on my old Bristol 29 and liked it alot, I wish I had one on my current boat.

Best of luck to you with this project!
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