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Old 01-04-2013, 16:08   #16
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

It is frustrating that they are missing the big picture. The vast majority of water pollution comes from non-point sources like street runoff and from municipal sewage plants that do not fully treat the effluent.

Picking on recreational boaters is going after less than 1% of the water pollution problem. It is hypocritical and inconsistent to go after boaters until the big polluters like government municipalities have cleaned up their act.
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Old 01-04-2013, 16:12   #17
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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Picking on recreational boaters is going after less than 1% of the water pollution.
According to the state, boaters are responsible for most of the copper and I think it's hard to argue that. The simple answer is to ban copper in anti fouling paints. But there's too much money and not enough political will to get that done, as we have seen (so far.)
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Old 01-04-2013, 16:15   #18
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

My point is that there is a lot more than copper polluting the water. Why the great focus just on copper? Because boaters are easier to regulate than are fellow government agencies. Apex predators generally don't feed on each other. They go after easier prey.
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Old 01-04-2013, 17:11   #19
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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Many of us have posted opinions on CF regarding the over-regulation of just about everything in California over the past couple of years, only to be berated over and over again by fstbttms where he defends the regulatory over-reaching state... always defending the hull cleaning business and the need to work in a clean underwater environment. Well, I left California because I didn't like all the excessive rules & fees.

'Looks to me like the fstbttms is getting bitten just like the rest of us... and he doesn't like it.

I really don't mean to sound nasty about this, but the OP has a long standing habit of berating and being very nasty towards anyone who disagrees with any of his opinions. Maybe it's true, what goes around... comes around.
I had a similar experience with this guy on another site after trying, in vain, to explain why he gave someone some bad advice.
We are all well aware of how easily ablative paint sheds copper when scrubbed in the water and there are a myriad of data to prove it. No state, even California, would propose eliminating this pollution source just for grins!x

When anyone advocates for exacerbating contamination just to keep a job, well...

The last thing we need is a less effective bottom paint or a more toxic alternative.

If you want to keep a boat bottom clean, use the boat.
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Old 01-04-2013, 17:17   #20
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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My point is that there is a lot more than copper polluting the water. Why the great focus just on copper? Because boaters are easier to regulate than are fellow government agencies. Apex predators generally don't feed on each other. They go after easier prey.
I'm assuming you refer to point source muni discharges.

Easy to criticize but that rhetoric is a smoke screen unless you and everyone else is willing to elect reps who advocate for higher taxes to pay for the upgrades to infrastructure. Are you willing to foot the bill which is in the billions of dollars?

If not, we have just identified the real reason why cities and towns continue to pollute. Lets place the blame where it belongs
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:01   #21
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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If you want to keep a boat bottom clean, use the boat.
...said the guy who keeps his boat in a place where fouling is low and the sailing season is short.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:46   #22
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

AHHhhh!!!! Environmentalism is SOOOO GREAT!!! Until it is your goat that gets gored!! No poop about it!!!
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:37   #23
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

Well being a northwest sailor, my clue is that hull cleaning for anything other than hard bottom paint is allready banned up here.
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:17   #24
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

I don't understand what the big deal is. Is it just fear that a study is going to show something you may not like? Is the opposite of sticking your head in the sand OK.

I would say it is safe to believe that California is on a path to banning copper paints, period. Wouldn't this be great for the hull cleaners?
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:27   #25
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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I don't understand what the big deal is. Is it just fear that a study is going to show something you may not like? Is the opposite of sticking your head in the sand OK.

I would say it is safe to believe that California is on a path to banning copper paints, period. Wouldn't this be great for the hull cleaners?



Get used to it because it is only going to get worse, much worse due to environmental radicalism. Us frogs will one day wake up although not in time to realize the water is about to boil. Keep your attention focused on the EPA now that the Great ONE realizes congress in its present configuration will not pass a Cap & Trade bill.
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:33   #26
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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I would say it is safe to believe that California is on a path to banning copper paints, period. Wouldn't this be great for the hull cleaners?
Yes it would. But the paint industry and boaters do not want to have to switch to non-copper paints. Last year they killed legislation that would have banned copper in this state. No guarantee that the new bill will fare any better.
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:54   #27
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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...said the guy who keeps his boat in a place where fouling is low and the sailing season is short.
Tsk, tsk. Guess I'd better not show you a pic of the boat sitting in Hamilton at the RBYC dock.
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Old 02-04-2013, 16:02   #28
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

I think it's high time they ban under water cleaning in CA It's not just the paint and metals, but also all the barnacles, mussels and other stuff that gets scraped off and falls to the bottom, where it dies and decomposes into a poisonous pile of corpses that are all infected with the poison ingredients from the anti-fouling paint and which then get eaten by other marine life which goes up the food chain and onto our plates. All because of the scraping!

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Old 02-04-2013, 16:45   #29
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

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I think it's high time they ban under water cleaning in CA It's not just the paint and metals, but also all the barnacles, mussels and other stuff that gets scraped off and falls to the bottom, where it dies and decomposes into a poisonous pile of corpses that are all infected with the poison ingredients from the anti-fouling paint and which then get eaten by other marine life which goes up the food chain and onto our plates. All because of the scraping!

This should be good.....
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Old 02-04-2013, 17:10   #30
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Re: Anti Fouling Paint Manufacturers Taking Aim At California Hull Cleaners

i think you've all overlooked the most obvious solution; lift unused boats out of the water.

imagine every marina in america being turned into a boatyard. 'slips' would be become 'lifts' which would raise the boat out of the water as soon as it returns to it's slip. it would be returned to the water the next time it's to be used. of course, trailerable boats would simply be trailered or dry stacked.

since most boats sit at dock or on a mooring 99% of their life, it would result in an enormous decrease in the amount of bottom paint leaching into the environment. conversely, bottom paint could simply be eliminated altogether or greatly reduced in effectiveness without causing any great decrease in performance for the individual boat.

expensive? sure, but everyone knows boat owners are millionaires, don't they? of course, it would put 'fstbttms' out of business, but i think he'd be happy to know that boaters everywhere would be polluting a whole lot less...
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