Visit our Popular Forums

leftbrainstuff · 18-12-2018, 17:18

Very difficult to bond Polypropylene (PP) to fiberglass. Even APC composites highlight that autoclaved PP cored honeycomb panels have the highest failure rate of any of their products.

So based on this challenge you will have to assume that the bonded structure will continue to degrade.

This wont be detectable by any visible external delamination. But may be detectable through acoustic, oil canning and perhaps skin creasing from loads.

I personally wouldn't attempt to repair it. So you can either accept the condition or move on.

Dulcesuenos · 18-12-2018, 19:23

Just curious, mantas have their water tanks under the cockpit floor,is it possible its just a leak from the tank causing the reading or issues? The deck I know is cored are you sure the bridgedeck is? Many cats have a solid glass bridgedeck even though the rest may be cored. So it wouldn't be uncommon to possibly have this scenario.... might want to ask one of the manta forum folks about this...

admiralslater · 18-12-2018, 21:18

There is no such thing as a competitive price on a boat with a soaked core if it is balsa it is rotting and if it is foam al your weight carring capacity is gone . Plus do we know how thewater got there ? And remember it will not be able to come north due to freezing .

meirriba · 19-12-2018, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

Yeah when my surveyor said 'alright who wants to go have a talk about something' and showed me the forward starboard berth to see the water coming out of a screw hole I was thinking... dammit come this far.

This boat was already very competitively priced hence us taking it to survey, though our 2nd choice is another Manta 40 that I know surveyed well recently, though at a fair higher price. Such is life

I would assume that the competitive price was offered to lure prospective customers to check the boat. The seller hoped either that the problem will not be found out or found very late in the process after the customers is already emotionally involved.
Discard your feelings and use business logic - buy more expensive boat in good condition (ex surveyors opinion,
i.e. mine...)

Cheechako · 19-12-2018, 09:27

WALK AWAY

westsail374 · 19-12-2018, 09:30

Wet core. Broken heart and empty wallet.

ryanandtracy · 19-12-2018, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Just happens that a former CF member contacted me yesterday who has a very well maintained Manta for sale. PM me if interested and I will send you his contact info.

Here in Belize?

jakkum · 19-12-2018, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

Thanks for the feedback. To note the boat is not delaminating. The fibreglass is all still very solid and intact with no delamination/blistering or soft spots. Though I imagine not changing your advice I just wanted to clarify

delaminatong? what are we talking about.perhaps the inner and outer hull are ok, for the moment, the layers of glass are still together. But if we are talking about the inner amd outer hull and the core inbetween are not attached anymore and it seems like that, you will mever glue them together anymore. And in due course osmosis might start on the inside.
A good big freeze will ruin the ship instantly.

KTP · 19-12-2018, 10:24

Why do steel hulls get such a negative rap if this kind of non-repairable stuff is what you get with fiberglass?

LeeV · 19-12-2018, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

GDay all,

I am under contract on a 1996 Manta 40 and during our haulout survey yesterday, a saturated core of the entire underside (underside of bridge deck and inside of each hull) was identified.

This was identified by:
First clue: pulling 3 fasteners out of forward starboard cabin sole - water immediately weeped in from the holes
Moisture meter on the outside during haulout confirmed this

This Manta 40 has Nida Core PP honeycomb core, so rot/desintegration is not an issue?

Other notes
-This does not seem to be osmosis
-There is no delamination or blistering. Hull is in very nice shape
-Only minor section of deck top is wet (unrelated to hull saturation)
-We are not looking for a project boat so a major job like this is not something we want to do ourselves. If we accept the issue and factor in the purchase price, we will be off sailing and not repairing the issue (though monitoring closely)

I am chasing any advice and experience you have on the subject as unfortunately all the research deals with Balsa/Foam cores, osmosis/blistering etc. Not our situation of a solid hull with wet honeycomb core.

I understand all older boats will have some issues along this line, and to me it doesn't seem to be a run away issue, but more of a how much cost reduction to factor in difficulty in resale (this purchase is planned to be a 2-5 year adventure)

Cheers
Paul

I'm amazed that you even did this: "this was identified by:
First clue: pulling 3 fasteners out of forward starboard cabin sole - water immediately weeped in from the holes"

Unusual to walk through the boat and pull fasteners out of the sole; what made you even think to do so? Certainly glad you did! :-)

billknny · 19-12-2018, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTP

Why do steel hulls get such a negative rap if this kind of non-repairable stuff is what you get with fiberglass?

This is the kind of "stuff" you get with a fiberglass boat that was some combination of poorly built, poorly maintained, or damaged and not repaired properly. I am not a fan of cored hulls, but cored decks CAN be forever if well cared for. Unfortunately most boat owners really don't care for their boats.

Steel hulls have different issues. They rust. Surprise! A steel hull is the best boat you can buy in many ways, but they are all built with extra metal above what strength requires as a "corrosion allowance" because they WILL corrode. Eventually, the metal loss exceeds the amount of extra added to the build and the boat has reached the end of its useful life.

For smaller boats, steel is less practical because that extra metal you add as "corrosion allowance" becomes a very significant fraction of the boat's weight.

A properly built and maintained FG boat is weaker at the start of its life, but it does not come with a "Best by" date like steel hulls do.

captlloyd · 19-12-2018, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTP

Why do steel hulls get such a negative rap if this kind of non-repairable stuff is what you get with fiberglass?

Steel hulls are fine if properly maintained. With fiberglass the type of construction method can determine if there will be problems or not. If done properly fiberglass can be one of the best maintenance friendly forms of boatbuilding. Notice I didn’t say maintenance free.