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Old 20-05-2014, 00:25   #1
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Advice for Work / Service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Hello,

I got the results of a survey today. Seems some rigging, hull work needs doing. Davits were overstressed causing damage to the stern. cracks in the area around the windlass to windows/locker area? Windlass support plywood is rotted and the support is insufficient. Gelcoat needs repair in places.

Nothing too major but I'd like to know a good shop to get this work done that will give a good estimate before the work is done.

I'm also curious, what would constitute a condition of no return? I mean if this boat is poorly maintained and over worked is it worth fixing? My thought is surely if the hulls are sound about anything can be repaired / replaced to bring it back up to spec. Is this correct or wishful thinking?

Thank you very much, I really feel a bit sick. I hoped this survey today would have been simply confirming all this great work were were told the boat had just received had actually been done. Reality seems work was done but they barely did anything and where things were replaced they did it wrong or used the wrong parts. So, I am about to fail this boat if I can't get straight answers from these guys or confidence this boat is not all used up. Which would really suck as we are ready now to buy and get out there.
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Old 20-05-2014, 02:15   #2
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdaddy View Post
Hello,

I got the results of a survey today. Seems some rigging, hull work needs doing. Davits were overstressed causing damage to the stern. cracks in the area around the windlass to windows/locker area? Windlass support plywood is rotted and the support is insufficient. Gelcoat needs repair in places.

Nothing too major but I'd like to know a good shop to get this work done that will give a good estimate before the work is done.

I'm also curious, what would constitute a condition of no return? I mean if this boat is poorly maintained and over worked is it worth fixing? My thought is surely if the hulls are sound about anything can be repaired / replaced to bring it back up to spec. Is this correct or wishful thinking?

Thank you very much, I really feel a bit sick. I hoped this survey today would have been simply confirming all this great work were were told the boat had just received had actually been done. Reality seems work was done but they barely did anything and where things were replaced they did it wrong or used the wrong parts. So, I am about to fail this boat if I can't get straight answers from these guys or confidence this boat is not all used up. Which would really suck as we are ready now to buy and get out there.
I cant advise you on this vessel. I can only tell you that there are much BETTER vessels out there where you do not have to question whether you were told the truth or not regarding its service. If your confidence is shot at this time........ you know what to do.
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Old 20-05-2014, 16:02   #3
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Guess what the repairs will cost then triple it. Then double that to cover unseen things that will make you dislike surveyors though you cant blame em . Then decide is it a good deal or would you be better off spending more money on a better boat? Chartering is a tough life but boats are pretty tough, it is a hard call to make, maybe negoiate keep in mind you may not get insurance until repairs are made if they are hsse related
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Old 20-05-2014, 20:40   #4
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Fast Daddy, are you buying it from the Moorings?

In any case, go to Oyster Pond and Captain Oliver's Marina during the day. Ask for Denzel or Mario. They work on the dock for the Moorings. They can both fix those problems, and really will do a good job, for 1/2 what it will cost in Simpson Bay.

If you do this, please tell them Palarran said hello.
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Old 20-05-2014, 20:52   #5
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

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Originally Posted by onefastdaddy View Post
I'm also curious, what would constitute a condition of no return? I mean if this boat is poorly maintained and over worked is it worth fixing? My thought is surely if the hulls are sound about anything can be repaired / replaced to bring it back up to spec. Is this correct or wishful thinking?
The last stage of purchasing a boat is annoying. You keep finding new things that are weird or wrong. It's like falling in love and proposing and being engaged and then the confusion and dismay and horror when you find out that your fiance doesn't flush. And then you notice they say 'like' in every sentence. And you start to wonder if you might have made a mistake or are crazy for being in love in the first place and maybe you go and look at personal ads and see hundreds of people that sound perfect who probably do flush and don't say like all the time, but in the back of your mind you also wonder if they are gross or flawed in some other hidden ways.

While purchasing our current boat, there were about three or four moments when I discovered something new wrong or weird, and I was ready to walk away. But my wife liked the boat and thought I was just freaking out (entirely possible), and we ended up buying it. I'm still not sure it is the 'best' transaction we could have made, whatever that means. If winning is measured in fun, then it's turned out well -- we are out here and having fun.

Fortunately, with boats, unlike people, most problems can be solved with money. So I whole heartedly endorse the idea to buy a boat that you can very easily afford: to have wads and wads of cash left over for unexpected problems or needs. I have not kept track, but we've easily spent about 30% more than we bought our boat for, fixing, upgrading, and customizing her to us, in this first year of wandering around the Caribbean.

Maybe a smarter and luckier person could have found a more perfect boat for that 30% more, or even 20% more, and we wouldn't have even had to spend a dime or weeks doing projects. The mythical boat with a doting owner who spared no expense keeping her as a museum piece. I'll try to buy that kind of boat next time, but I suspect that boat will still have something weird or wrong with it, once I get to know it.

For your specific questions -- I don't know Lagoons, so maybe they are predisposed to some kind of intractable heartbreaking problem that cannot be fixed. Other folks here may share their own horror stories of Lagoon ownership, if there is one.

Good luck!
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Old 20-05-2014, 20:59   #6
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Hello,

Thank you everyone for your update and info.

I have an update. After a day there and interacting with the Moorings people there my wife and I feel a lot better about this situation. The boat is still a challenge but we really needed to just interact in person with these people to realize they are all interested in doing whatever is required and capable of getting it done.

This is honestly the outcome I had hoped. I mean far better to realize things are better than they seem. The boat is however worse than it seemed but if we were to buy it we feel the people there could do whatever was needed.

I think we are now just short on time and must consider that it would take quite a bit of time to take a boat that needs some time consuming things done to it and get them done there before we need to get South for insurance reasons.

We also found out St. Maartin has no import duties so getting work done there is actually not a bad idea.

I wish this was like Math...use the right formula and out comes the right answer...at least we learned some good things today not bad which helps a lot. Based on their actions Moorings has shown us a lot of respect and willingness to work with us...listen to us. Until the deal is done I can't comment more but so far so good.
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Old 20-05-2014, 21:25   #7
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

My advice? get the important stuff fixed to sail south, i mean rigging, sails engines , if they are ok, go south before the midle of june, dont start or let people start long projects, you can be stuck in the island in the midle of the hurricane season. Just saying....
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Old 21-05-2014, 04:42   #8
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Go with your Gut!
The Lagoon in question doesn't happen to be a former Sunsail charter boat does it?
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Old 21-05-2014, 05:02   #9
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pirate Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdaddy View Post
Hello,

Thank you everyone for your update and info.

I have an update. After a day there and interacting with the Moorings people there my wife and I feel a lot better about this situation. The boat is still a challenge but we really needed to just interact in person with these people to realize they are all interested in doing whatever is required and capable of getting it done.

This is honestly the outcome I had hoped. I mean far better to realize things are better than they seem. The boat is however worse than it seemed but if we were to buy it we feel the people there could do whatever was needed.

I think we are now just short on time and must consider that it would take quite a bit of time to take a boat that needs some time consuming things done to it and get them done there before we need to get South for insurance reasons.

We also found out St. Maartin has no import duties so getting work done there is actually not a bad idea.

I wish this was like Math...use the right formula and out comes the right answer...at least we learned some good things today not bad which helps a lot. Based on their actions Moorings has shown us a lot of respect and willingness to work with us...listen to us. Until the deal is done I can't comment more but so far so good.
Having bought from Moorings in the past..
My advice is.. sit on top of the workers whenever they are working on the boat.. make sure they are actually doing what they're supposed to be..
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Old 21-05-2014, 06:35   #10
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Re: Advice for Work / Service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

You got a GOOD survey, be glad of that, very glad.
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Old 21-05-2014, 11:15   #11
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

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My advice? get the important stuff fixed to sail south, i mean rigging, sails engines , if they are ok, go south before the midle of june, dont start or let people start long projects, you can be stuck in the island in the midle of the hurricane season. Just saying....
No objections there...I'm trying...until it's our boat I can't take it anywhere.
Fortunately until we purchase it they are responsible for it.

Now of all things on this boat what worries me, because I do not know better, is moisture effect in a Lagoon. This boat has been wet in the bilge for quite a long while. Nothing metal inside is without corrosion.

For the right price isn't it still worth it? At some point if the price is low enough can't all that stuff be taken out, replaced etc and you end up with a refurbished but sound boat. Granted, that would have to wait until after November if done in St. Maarten. That's my sticking point here. Is the inside just fiberglass with everything else fitted into that? Will moisture get into that and rot it?

The survey really did not turn up anything horrible. Just obviously when on board you can see the effects of the moisture inside. Motors fired right up. Saildrives had some issues and will need service but again. Imagine it was a very good price...what is the deal breaker in your mind that would sink this purchase?
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Old 21-05-2014, 11:28   #12
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Re: Advice for Work / Service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

Doesn't sound like anything that couldnt be there on most any boat survey really. Don't worry, things will keep popping up as long as you own her! Get used to it and just keep a list of what's next to be repaired.

"I'm also curious, what would constitute a condition of no return?"
I have no idea what this means....?
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Old 21-05-2014, 11:30   #13
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Re: Advice for Work / Service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

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You got a GOOD survey, be glad of that, very glad.
Absolutely, everyone there has been professional, open and honest. No one is trying to tell us this is anything without full disclosure. This is no horror story. I'm not complaining or unhappy. Just trying to expand my sources of information here and listening to your advice to help with the decisions.

About ex-charter and in particular Moorings ex-charter. We have been very transparent with them and them with us. We do not expect a perfect boat for what we have in our budget. I think that honesty and willing to work towards a deal we both can live with is the key here.

My decision is affected by timing now. How much time do we have to make repairs as we believe we should go South before July. I want my family to want to stay on it not swim to shore and take the first plane home

If anyone is on the fence about ex-charter and Moorings contact me. I'll be honest. I have no reason to hide anything. I wished I had someone in the process to speak to before doing this. However if they had the same experience I am having I would be glad. This is not a bad experience.

Then again doesn't the hard stuff start after you buy it? Plenty of stories of even new boats having issues. I'm sure whatever we buy will have them. I just want them not to be major right off...hence the survey.
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Old 21-05-2014, 11:38   #14
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Re: Advice for work / service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

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Having bought from Moorings in the past..
My advice is.. sit on top of the workers whenever they are working on the boat.. make sure they are actually doing what they're supposed to be..
Indeed, the squeaky wheel thing ... amazing how that just seems to work in life anywhere you are.

Does anyone remember the TV series "Columbo"? Amazing what he would get to the bottom of and solve with that great style of his ;]
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Old 21-05-2014, 11:39   #15
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Re: Advice for Work / Service on Lagoon 410 in St. Martin

@All: Thank you everyone. Even if I didn't reply directly to you I read your post and thank you for it. All good info and very much appreciated.
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