Why do people replace diesel engines in a sailboat?

[nvmoose]

Originally Posted by nvmoose

Thanks Pete, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for…
rbk... As far as an outboard goes, Tahoe is very particular about not allowing 2 stroke outboards so I would need a four stroke. I like the idea of pulling the valve cover to inspect the rockers, valve stems, and springs. After all the Owner did say that the engine ran last season. So now all of a sudden it doesn't? Any suggestions on how to determine how to identify the base motor?
Thanks again, nvmoose

Thanks Ray Durkee with the T37 I guess you reposted the info from Pete...

[sailah]

You could buy a leak down tester. Follow the instructions and you can generally figure out where the loss of compression is coming from. The basic concept is that you pressurize the cylinder with air from a small compressor.

Depending on where the air leaks, you have likely identified the problem. Air leak from intake? Bad intake valve, simple. Air from exhaust? Exhaust valves, simple. Bubbles in cooling? Head gasket or other, could be simple or not. Air from dipstick? Worn rings, not so simple. There are plenty of videos explaining how it works better than I can

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5609-Cyli.../dp/B0030EVL60

Regarding identifying the Westerbeke engine, usually there is a casting stamp with actual block ID somewhere, usually at front of engine. I have a Westerbeke 44B and mine is a Mitsubishi S4L2. Once I found that, I discovered all non-Westerbeke parts are actually quite reasonable.

[nvmoose]

Originally Posted by sailah

You could buy a leak down tester. Follow the instructions and you can generally figure out where the loss of compression is coming from. The basic concept is that you pressurize the cylinder with air from a small compressor.

Depending on where the air leaks, you have likely identified the problem. Air leak from intake? Bad intake valve, simple. Air from exhaust? Exhaust valves, simple. Bubbles in cooling? Head gasket or other, could be simple or not. Air from dipstick? Worn rings, not so simple. There are plenty of videos explaining how it works better than I can

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5609-Cyli.../dp/B0030EVL60

Regarding identifying the Westerbeke engine, usually there is a casting stamp with actual block ID somewhere, usually at front of engine. I have a Westerbeke 44B and mine is a Mitsubishi S4L2. Once I found that, I discovered all non-Westerbeke parts are actually quite reasonable.

Thanks sailah, another good suggestion . I will look into that!

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by nvmoose

Thanks Pete, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for…
rbk... As far as an outboard goes, Tahoe is very particular about not allowing 2 stroke outboards so I would need a four stroke. I like the idea of pulling the valve cover to inspect the rockers, valve stems, and springs. After all the Owner did say that the engine ran last season. So now all of a sudden it doesn't? Any suggestions on how to determine how to identify the base motor?
Thanks again, nvmoose

Not absolutely sure, but the engine is probably Perkins/Shibaura based. Not sure about the model number either, but KN9, 3H3XL, 451E2V are numbers associated with an engine that looks a lot like the Westerbeke W10Two, and have the same 451cc (.451L) displacement.

[nvmoose]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Not absolutely sure, but the engine is probably Perkins/Shibaura based. Not sure about the model number either, but KN9, 3H3XL, 451E2V are numbers associated with an engine that looks a lot like the Westerbeke W10Two, and have the same 451cc (.451L) displacement.

Thanks jimbunyard, I will take that info with me when I look at the engine. Also... Update! I found out yesterday that a boat yard employee was the last to person to move the boat and hear the engine run. It was transported across Lake Tahoe by this employee apx 28 miles to the marina for winter haulout. It was moored for a bit just before pulling and putting on the hard. But the engine wouldn't start to move it into the sling and had to be towed that last short distance. My guess is the employee ran the engine quite hard across the lake and basically ruined it. I suppose this could have dislodged a rocker or broke a spring but then that problem would have shown itself before the engine was shut down. The marina has removed the engine to perform whatever compression test was done so it is safe to say that the piston rings and cylinder walls are probably shot? This marina has admitted to the PO about not being good with Diesel engines. They are used to high power gasoline engines for the huge Tahoe lake boats and outboard motors. I will talk directly to the marina manager soon as they are still in winter season mode. I am also wondering why the PO is not holding the marina accountable for the damage they did?? In hindsight if I go forward with the purchase I can just snatch up the engine and bring it to the local tractor store for a rebuild.

[Pete the Cat]

Originally Posted by nvmoose

Thanks jimbunyard, I will take that info with me when I look at the engine. Also... Update! I found out yesterday that a boat yard employee was the last to person to move the boat and hear the engine run. It was transported across Lake Tahoe by this employee apx 28 miles to the marina for winter haulout. It was moored for a bit just before pulling and putting on the hard. But the engine wouldn't start to move it into the sling and had to be towed that last short distance. My guess is the employee ran the engine quite hard across the lake and basically ruined it. I suppose this could have dislodged a rocker or broke a spring but then that problem would have shown itself before the engine was shut down. The marina has removed the engine to perform whatever compression test was done so it is safe to say that the piston rings and cylinder walls are probably shot? This marina has admitted to the PO about not being good with Diesel engines. They are used to high power gasoline engines for the huge Tahoe lake boats and outboard motors. I will talk directly to the marina manager soon as they are still in winter season mode. I am also wondering why the PO is not holding the marina accountable for the damage they did?? In hindsight if I go forward with the purchase I can just snatch up the engine and bring it to the local tractor store for a rebuild.

Here is a guess: they had an idiot move the boat who did not know to open the freshwater valve and the engine overheated. I would say that it would be impossible to ruin a Diesel engine in 28 miles of hard running as long as it it has lubrication and minimally adequate cooling. I am finding the fact that this marina is "not good with diesels" yet had no reluctance to pull it out of the boat to inspect it???
Something is not adding up here.

[nvmoose]

Yeah, I think there is just a downward spiral going on here… and at the bottom is a big pot of money for everyone except the seller and the new owner.

[Hydroghyl]

Originally Posted by Aswayze

I just recently overhauled a 42 year old YSE-8 in my boat.

Because:

-I am a very good mechanic

-I am a machinist and I have the ability to make all the daffy rebuild tools myself

-I can make and fit parts as needed in my shop

-I had the time and the warm dry place to work so digging for hard to find parts was not a huge deal.


Does that make me wise? No...

Does that make me better than someone who replaces a similar engine? Certainly not.

Does that give me a better engine? Hard to say, this one is in fine form now and I know it inside and out but is it really better than a new Beta? Probably not.

Did that save me money? Hard to say, my parts outlay was not unreasonable but if I had spent the time I spent working on the engine at work making overtime pay I could have easily just bought a new Beta engine.

I did my rebuild because I like doing that sort of stuff, I had the facility to do it MYSELF to a very high standard, and I enjoy that sort of work. If 100% of those prerequisites were not met, I would have replaced it with a new engine and not thought a thing of it. New engines are pretty much always lighter, smoother and easier to track down parts for. If you have the budget for it and new is the best option for you then you certainly should put a new engine in and motor off into the sunset knowing that smart guys like me might not be as smart as we look when the dust settles.

Great response. I don’t even know why this made me feel good, but it did. Perhaps it was the no BS self assessment and the honest and humble answers to good questions. I think I would enjoy knowing you.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Another thread got me to thinking. Why is it that people decide to re-power?

Assuming you have a working engine, a diesel engine, what is the point?

I see a lot of people pull out older engines and put in a brand new one. I’m thinking of ones like an old Perkins. Sure, they look old. And they probably don’t get as great fuel efficiency as the new ones. But why replace them if they are still running?

For some reason there is always this underlying thread about being cheap as hell as a cruiser being a good thing. I don't get it.

I like my boat, the engines were old, they were rusty, and they still ran. I had enough money to replace them and not miss it. So I did. Is it really a mystery? Why buy a new car? A new house, new jean's, get a new spouse ;-) , because you want to.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Palarran

For some reason there is always this underlying thread about being cheap as hell as a cruiser being a good thing. I don't get it.

I like my boat, the engines were old, they were rusty, and they still ran. I had enough money to replace them and not miss it. So I did. Is it really a mystery? Why buy a new car? A new house, new jean's, get a new spouse ;-) , because you want to.

“Because you want to?”

That’s not a very good reason at all. What a waste of an engine, of a car, of a person.

This isn’t about being cheap. It’s about replacing something that doesn’t need to be replaced. It’s about choosing to replace something that merely needs to be cared for.

The parallels to replacing a spouse are absolutely brilliant, actually.




Rusty engines? Sure. If they’re broken and failing? Sure. But most old engines in boats are running just fine in my experience. Yet, people are frightened of them.

I remember the look on the previous owner’s face when I took a boat I owned recently from the dock and motored through Hell Gate and out Long Island Sound. He was sure the old Perkins would leaves me stranded. It ran fine for a few years until I sold the boat and is still running fine.

My theory is people are frightened of older things.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Chotu

“Because you want to?”

That’s not a very good reason at all.

And yet, that's the reason 95% of commerce happens. So I find it a waste to even ask why - There are two sayings in Greece they use all the time. "Why Not" and "Who Cares". Either of these fits the question.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This isn’t about being cheap. It’s about replacing something that doesn’t need to be replaced. It’s about choosing to replace something that merely needs to be cared for.

The parallels to replacing a spouse are absolutely brilliant, actually.

My theory is people are frightened of older things.

I like that. the old saying: be careful what you ask for .. comes to mind. much better to take care of what you have .. or were given

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by nvmoose

I have been considering a purchase of a 1983 27 Hunter Cherubini (my first boat)with a Westerbeke W 10 TWO that is not working. It has been diagnosed with low compression by two marine mechanics and it will not fire up and run. The PO has stated that it ran last season but then stopped. I have not seen the boat yet due to snow. This is a fresh water boat and has been in Lake Tahoe it's entire life. Price or the boat is $2700. From what I can tell by the pics it has been well taken care of and I thought this was a pretty good deal but the replacement or refurbish of the W 10 TWO has pretty much killed the deal. The PO received quotes of at 8-10k with a tranny overhaul. Is it possible that some back pressure or vapor lock could cause a low compression test to warrent a rebuild? Is there any tips or tricks to get the engine to fire up or is low compression a killer? Is repowering to a newer different engine a consideration in this small of a vessel? BTW I am not totally unfamiliar with sailing or marine lifestyle . My wife and I have sailed the San Juan islands, the Greek islands, and sailed from SF to PV and attended the Baha Ha Ha twice. We even threw in a Bash(ONCE)! from San Jose Cabo to SF. But we did this as Crew obviously and thought we would pick up a small boat close to home to enjoy. Hence the above predicament ... Any help is appreciated! nvmoose.

Update found out that the westerbeke 10-two is a Mitsubishi k2b engine that is used in small lawn tractors and forklifts.

I purchased one for real cheap due to previous owner wanting a new engine . The only thing it needed was a flush of the fwc system a new glow plugs control relay. ( They won't start without at least 15 seconds of glow plugs heat .

[zboss]

We replaced ours because the oil seals were getting expensive/hard to find PLUS they didn't really last long being an old design PLUS it was very difficult to get to the rear of the engine. No more waiting weeks or months on parts. We upgraded to a new beta and the problem was solved - there were some additional benefits we hadn't planned on. The new engine ran cooler, was quieter, and had better compression.

[Chili Palmer]

Originally Posted by Chotu

“Because you want to?”

That’s not a very good reason at all.

But it's HIS reason, why judge him because he did something you didn't agree with?