Westerbeke 46 rear seal

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

That sucks.

That number does not look like the Mitsubishi number in the parts manual. Is that a *new* Mitsubishi number, or is it some third party manufacturer's number for that seal?

Its a seal type.

[Saltyhog]

Any luck finding a source for the seal? For the rest of the parts? I found a reference that said NOK (Japanese seal company) has that seal. But I couldn't find it on their site.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by zboss

The agony of defeat...

It is NOT the right seal. The seal we need is BH2417E.

Well crap that sucks...

Originally Posted by skipmac

Oh darn. Does that mean the party's off?

Keep the music cued up...

Originally Posted by zboss

Its a seal type.

Z... Take a picture of exactly what you need... I'll bet you can get it like we say just from measurements... Looks like a dang regular lip seal with a steel outer ring...

[zboss]

That is exactly what it is... the issue is that the seal's number is the proprietary seal number for Westerbeke and the bearing and seal places we have contacted say mitsubishi will not sell them the seal.

So our engine mechanic is at a dead end. I'm not sure exactly what to measure and how to find the right seal in a catalog, or what the major after-market seal companies are.

[Saltyhog]

Are you saying that this seal, on a Westerbeke W46, is different than the seal on a Mitsubishi 4dq5? If I had a forklift with a Mitsu 4dq5 and I wanted a rear engine seal, could I get it? Or is it one of the items that's different on the W46 fromthe 4dq5? If I've followed along correctly (probably didn't ), you're saying that the rear seal on a Westerbeke W46 is no longer being sold by Westerbeke, and Mitsubishi won't sell it to you and they'll prevent anyone else from selling it to you because of an agreement they (Mitsubishi) had with Westerbeke for exclusive parts sales for that engine. Sheesh !!! It seems to me that Westerbeke is shooting themselves in the foot here. If I can't fix / rebuild my Westerbeke because of their business practice, I'm left with no alternative but to replace the engine. And even if they do sell you the parts, their markup is so absurd as to make you feel violated in a carnal way. Add to that, the one (and only) time I called Westerbeke with a technical question I had about my W46, they made me feel like an idiot for wasting their time and they never did answer the question. I think I'd be calling Beta Marine about now.

[NoTies]

If the seal lip is still in good condition, remove the boot spring, find the join and unwind it. Snip around 1/4" from the female side of the join, reconnect and you should be good to go for another thousand hours.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Are you saying that this seal, on a Westerbeke W46, is different than the seal on a Mitsubishi 4dq5? If I had a forklift with a Mitsu 4dq5 and I wanted a rear engine seal, could I get it? Or is it one of the items that's different on the W46 fromthe 4dq5?

No, its not. It is my understanding that the seal specifications are proprietary to mitsubishi and mitsubishi only make them for westerbeke. Even my tractor guy, who was extremely helpful, was surprised.

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

If I've followed along correctly (probably didn't ), you're saying that the rear seal on a Westerbeke W46 is no longer being sold by Westerbeke, and Mitsubishi won't sell it to you and they'll prevent anyone else from selling it to you because of an agreement they (Mitsubishi) had with Westerbeke for exclusive parts sales for that engine.

That is correct.

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Sheesh !!! It seems to me that Westerbeke is shooting themselves in the foot here. If I can't fix / rebuild my Westerbeke because of their business practice, I'm left with no alternative but to replace the engine. And even if they do sell you the parts, their markup is so absurd as to make you feel violated in a carnal way. Add to that, the one (and only) time I called Westerbeke with a technical question I had about my W46, they made me feel like an idiot for wasting their time and they never did answer the question. I think I'd be calling Beta Marine about now.

That is also correct.

I am not giving up hope but I am also not going to sit around here for months waiting for a part that may never materialize. 3/4's of the oil leaks are fixable with the gaskets we have on hand. I'm going to put the engine back together with the old seal and maybe a little sealant help (if that is even a possibility) and then spend my days in the Bahamas trying to track down a new seal. When we get back from the Bahamas, I will have the new seal put in.

I refuse to believe there is not an after-market replacement available.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by zboss

That is exactly what it is... the issue is that the seal's number is the proprietary seal number for Westerbeke and the bearing and seal places we have contacted say mitsubishi will not sell them the seal.

So our engine mechanic is at a dead end. I'm not sure exactly what to measure and how to find the right seal in a catalog, or what the major after-market seal companies are.

JUST... Take a few good pictures and POST THEM... 1. SEAL, 2. HOUSING, 3. SHAFT.... Seals are ID-OD-W(idth) and TYPE.... A seal is a seal is a seal... WE CAN find you a comparable seal that will fit... I guarantee it! You need a dial caliper to help us out...

Originally Posted by NoTies

If the seal lip is still in good condition, remove the boot spring, find the join and unwind it. Snip around 1/4" from the female side of the join, reconnect and you should be good to go for another thousand hours.

Z... This is your second best idea...

Originally Posted by zboss

No, its not. It is my understanding that the seal specifications are proprietary to mitsubishi and mitsubishi only make them for westerbeke. Even my tractor guy, who was extremely helpful, was surprised.
Mitsu don't make no seal... No way... The Jap Seal Co. Ltd. or somebody else MAKES THEM FOR Mitsu...

I refuse to believe there is not an after-market replacement available.

There totally is... we just need your help...

[Saltyhog]

He *did* post a picture, back in post 26. It does not look like any lip seal I've ever seen. The seal is actually bonded to that flange with the mounting holes in it. That assembly (seal and flange) is the seal. ID/OD/W are not gonna do it. I could be wrong, but it looks like a specialty item. I guess that's why it's a $200+ seal.

Z- sounds like a good plan (going to the Bahamas). I hope you find a source. There *has* to be a supply of them somewhere because like I said earlier, there are a lot of forklifts with that same engine, and they must be getting parts from somewhere.

[zboss]

Apparently there is a spring inside the seal, called a garter spring. Its used to tension the seal. One of the mechanics has shortened the spring and we are dry fitting the seal today. If this works it is a good stop-gap until we can find an appropriate after-market replacement.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

He *did* post a picture, back in post 26. It does not look like any lip seal I've ever seen. The seal is actually bonded to that flange with the mounting holes in it. That assembly (seal and flange) is the seal. ID/OD/W are not gonna do it. I could be wrong, but it looks like a specialty item. I guess that's why it's a $200+ seal.

Z- sounds like a good plan (going to the Bahamas). I hope you find a source. There *has* to be a supply of them somewhere because like I said earlier, there are a lot of forklifts with that same engine, and they must be getting parts from somewhere.

MY APOLOGIES!!! I missed the pic in #26, and only thought we had the one in #46...

This is EASY PEASY, but kinda a PITA... for 20% of the amount of time you have spent looking for the right seal... Ya coulda had a "SUPERZBOSS 46W rear main seal housing" made... Any competent machinist could make a housing, and then you could use just about any off the shelf seal that would fit...

Originally Posted by zboss

Apparently there is a spring inside the seal, called a garter spring. Its used to tension the seal. One of the mechanics has shortened the spring and we are dry fitting the seal today. If this works it is a good stop-gap until we can find an appropriate after-market replacement.

Yes... I saw mention of this previously and gave it a thumbs up... My guess as to likeliness of it working are better than 90% IF-IF-IF... There's still a good edge on the seal, and it hasn't hardened too much...

Z... Find a hobby machinist forum... Bet ya dollars to doughnuts you can find a guy to help ya make a new seal housing for a couple of six packs and a promise of a nice daysail...

[zboss]

I know... this is my first time having to source something this difficult... never have have I owned a real cruising boat. The colgate had no engine, our twin-vee power cat is small and the Evinrude engines are older but they still make them.

The spring thing did not go well.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Z... Find a hobby machinist forum... Bet ya dollars to doughnuts you can find a guy to help ya make a new seal housing for a couple of six packs and a promise of a nice daysail...

ADDENDUM....

My neighbor across the street could whip this out in a few hours... But he's kinda retired and I am already totally lopsided on the "favor scale" Like 90% of the favors coming my way... If you decide to go new housing, and can't find somebody to make it for ya... lemme know...

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by zboss

The spring thing did not go well.

Poop...

Well... try the machinist thing... If you "phone book it", it's probably going to be $200+...

If ya find a guy in his garage with a lathe and a mill... He may do it just to get away from the wife...

[Saltyhog]

I like HappyMdrsailor's idea. Wish I had thought of it. The trick will be to select the right seal type and then design the plate to receive it. Go to a bearing/seal shop and see if there is someone knowledgeable that can give you some advice. There are so many variations on seals, (physical design and materials) I'd want to be sure I picked something that will never fail. Following on HappyMd's suggestion, you might find some advice on a machinist's forum WRT the best seal.