Volvo Penta 2003 / Starting

[vtomanov]

Originally Posted by Pete7

VT, if you haven't already guessed Vasco doesn't like these engines. However, since we both have them fitted in our boats then we wil have to make the most of it.

I notice your in London and with air temperatures in single figure (centigrade) then its tough on an engine without a cold start. The quick way to start them is with a squirt of easy start, but don't go OTT with the stuff.

There are some other things you can check, on the side of the engine were the throttle cable joins the engine, does the throttle open fully? and does the engine stop cable work fully. You probably need two people to do this, one to move the levers and one to look at the engine. Next if you are feeling brave is to take side cover off the box the cable levers attach to. Unfortunately I don't have the access to do this without removing the engine on my boat. Inside is a series of springs, clips and widgets which move the fuel rack forward to increase the amount of diesel injected on each stroke. Anything broken or worn in here isn't going to help.

Final thought is when was the last time the engine injectors were pulled and tested for the spray pattern? be warned that they live in a copper jacket which seals them from the engine coolant in the cylinder head. If you are not careful taking the injectors out the copper jacket comes out too and that is a head off job to replace them, if you can buy them as they are getting rare. Deciding against this when I changed the fuel filter last year I did a 50/50 mix with diesel and injector cleaner to clean out the 3 x FIPs and injectors. Worked a bit so will repeat again this year.

When was the last time the tank was cleaned out? muck (diesel bug) in there blocks the fine mesh filter in the older type of fuel pumps which won't help starting.

Final thought, when was the air filter last cleaned? the process is in the manual available from the Volvo Penta Website or Blue Moment forum, but it involves soaking in a bath of diesel, the filter is a wire mesh inside the metal canister and can't be opened up. The alternative is to fit a £30 K&N filter and do away with the volvo one. K&N have general purpose filters for engines not on their popular lists.

It is never going to be easy to start them in cold weather but the above might it might help.

Pete

Yep I'm in London but my boat is south of France e.g temperatures there are about 15+ degree Celsius e.g nor really cold...

all filter changed and air filter cleaned ...

I was thinking for the injectors change \ cleaning also , but worried about the problems that can arise from this


I will take a look if I have access to the box with spirings etc and take a look inside if I can

Can you point me to right K&N filter ? btw: I have tried with removed filter and no difference in starting..

[Doug Brown]

The Volvo air cleaner is a joke. I have seen them some apart and the steel mesh go into the engine and jam the valves open.

I made up a filter that uses paper air filter elements and it has work very well for the last 23 years.

The K&N type of filter will work too - the steel intake pipe (which is removable with just 4 small bolts) is 2" diameter, so it is a relatively easy to find something that will clamp onto it, or additional pieces of piece can be fitted to it to get the filter to a location where it is easy to change out.

[vtomanov]

Originally Posted by Doug Brown

The Volvo air cleaner is a joke. I have seen them some apart and the steel mesh go into the engine and jam the valves open.

I made up a filter that uses paper air filter elements and it has work very well for the last 23 years.

The K&N type of filter will work too - the steel intake pipe (which is removable with just 4 small bolts) is 2" diameter, so it is a relatively easy to find something that will clamp onto it, or additional pieces of piece can be fitted to it to get the filter to a location where it is easy to change out.

Before two years I played with the filter also but found :

1. that volvo filter, no filter or paper or foam filter does not make any difference in how the engine is working - power and starting and fuel consumption

2. All other options except Volvo original filer was not very good as the engine become A LOT more noisier as the other options do not have any noise canceling features

3. the VP 2003 is a little noisy bastard by itself

e.g. after that I decided to stick with the Volvo original filter as it at least reduced the noise quite significantly..

I also was thinking about put some electric mushroom style fan to help with the air flow but after some deep calculations decided that will not do too much good in reality...

[Doug Brown]

The big plus that I found with my paper element filter is that you can change it out in 5-minutes, vs. soaking it in diesel and then trying to dry it, which takes forever.

It also lets you see just how much dirt/dust is floating around in your engine room - which can be pretty surprising.

But you are right, probably doesn't help that much when trying to start a cold engine

[vtomanov]

thinking about installing additional electric fuel pump to test if this will improve teh starting procedure e.g. :

12V ELECTRIC UNIVERSAL PETROL DIESEL FUEL PUMP FACET POSI FLOW STYLE KIT CAR | eBay

I think the only place where I can install it is after the water separator and before the mechanical fuel pump ? any suggestions ?

[Vasco]

I did that. Installed an electric fuel pump. Did not help at all.

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[Neptune's Gear]

Yep, electric fuel pump waste of time unless you have PROVEN the mechanical lift pump is not working correctly. With a pressure gauge and flow test.

Your issue may be that there is little fuel remaining at the injectors after some time sitting unused. In this case, priming won't work properly, and, if the engine starts at all, it will run roughly until all fuel lines to the injectors are full and pressurised as they should be.
Causes can be an air leak in the fuel line, syphoning fuel back to the tank, or leaks in the injector itself - possibly slowly leaking diesel into the cylinder, so over a day or more the injectors fuel line is emptied. Are there any external diesel leaks? Is there any diesel in the oil, or does the oil level slowly increase? Does the engine, when started from cold, often blow black smoke at least initially?

You MAY be able to isolate which cylinder is the issue by removing the injector fuel line at the injector end, and checking for the presence of diesel. All 3 lines should be full, even after a week of non use.


This is not magic, it's mechanics. There are thousands of these engines out there without this issue. It can be fixed by a competent mechanic.


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[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

Yep, electric fuel pump waste of time unless you have PROVEN the mechanical lift pump is not working correctly. With a pressure gauge and flow test.

Your issue may be that there is little fuel remaining at the injectors after some time sitting unused. In this case, priming won't work properly, and, if the engine starts at all, it will run roughly until all fuel lines to the injectors are full and pressurised as they should be.
Causes can be an air leak in the fuel line, or in the injector itself - possibly slowly leaking diesel into the cylinder, so over a day or more the injectors fuel line emptied. Are there any external diesel leaks? Is there any diesel in the oil, or does the oil level slowly increase? Does the engine, when started from cold, often blow black smoke at least initially?

This is not magic, it's mechanics. There are thousands of these engines out there without this issue. It can be fixed by a competent mechanic.


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Agree it is only mechanics. Not sure I agree about going after a fix. The engine sounds like it is running fine and reliably starts - even if it takes 2 or 3 tries. Given the possible issues with the injector sleeves after all these years, I'd leave well enough alone. When I pulled the injectors on my 2003 just cause I could test them easily where I was, I ended up going down a rathole of work that in the end was death by a thousand paper cuts.

[vtomanov]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Agree it is only mechanics. Not sure I agree about going after a fix. The engine sounds like it is running fine and reliably starts - even if it takes 2 or 3 tries. Given the possible issues with the injector sleeves after all these years, I'd leave well enough alone. When I pulled the injectors on my 2003 just cause I could test them easily where I was, I ended up going down a rathole of work that in the end was death by a thousand paper cuts.

Yep that is the reason why I do not want to start dealing with injectors... as the engine going generally fine ... and I just need to improve the starting a bit if possible - if not I will just use it as it is until its time come and need changing or complete overhaul...

btw: found very good engine prices here : Marine diesel engine supplier for inboard marine diesel engines for boats still trying to find more reliable source about the quality of this engines

[Pete7]

Down the boat this afternoon and found the can of easy start has unblocked itself. A quick puff in the air intake with out the filter and the Volvo started like a modern petrol car engine However, it was 12'c this afternoon.

I am thinking of using something like this, but forgot to measure the intake manifold this afternoon so can't be sure its 49mm.

RC-1062 - K&N Universal Air Filters, Universal Chrome Filter direct from K&N

or this:

http://www.knfilters.co.uk/search/pr...x?prod=RU-2700
Pete

[Neptune's Gear]

No need to pull the injectors at this point. Check for the presence of fuel at both the connection of the fuel line to each injector, and the other end of the injector lines, after the engine is unused for a few days. It is yet to be determined if this is the problem. If it is, is the fuel going back down the lines towards the pump and tank, or is it going into the cylinder/s, or leaking elsewhere?
Even if you do have to pull the injectors, imo that's not a huge deal - although, I've not had the issue above about the copper liner coming out with the injector. If that is the case, then the liner is loose, and is most likely not gas tight, so needs to be replaced anyway.
Of course the decision to repair it or put up with it is purely yours :-)


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[vtomanov]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

No need to pull the injectors at this point. Check for the presence of fuel at both the connection of the fuel line to each injector, and the other end of the injector lines, after the engine is unused for a few days. It is yet to be determined if this is the problem. If it is, is the fuel going back down the lines towards the pump and tank, or is it going into the cylinder/s, or leaking elsewhere?
Even if you do have to pull the injectors, imo that's not a huge deal - although, I've not had the issue above about the copper liner coming out with the injector. If that is the case, then the liner is loose, and is most likely not gas tight, so needs to be replaced anyway.
Of course the decision to repair it or put up with it is purely yours :-)


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hmmmm I have some small diesel spills the the market places (on the picture -not my engine I just used another picture and market the places with the spills)- cannot judge if this is from only one of the injectors and the diesel has found the way to the others or all 3 spills a little diesel..

[Neptune's Gear]

That could easily be the problem. Clean it up and then watch carefully for it's reappearance. Is it coming from the connections, or up the side of the injectors?

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[Pete7]

If diesel is getting out then air can get in causing it to siphon down. We did have a similar problem a couple of years ago and I found some of the nuts only just tight causing diesel to leak out, particularly from the return pipes.

[Paul L]

When I replaced my injector sleeves it was not because they were loose. The injectors did not seal properly when reinserted. There was some erosion on the sleeves. Since these injectors do not have a copper sealing washer at the bottom, the sleeves need to be in very good shape.