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Old 06-01-2012, 10:34   #46
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

We have a Jabsco pump with a mechanical clutch. It has a hinged mounting and is belted from a pulley at the front of the engine. the belt is tensioned by a longish spring which can be stretched by hooking it over a pelican hook.
The pump outlet is threaded male and exits into the cockpit. I can connect a 3/4 garden hose for wash down purposes.
The pump inlet is inside a cockpit locker and is permanently connected to a longish length of flexible hose with a strum box on the end.
If you need to wash the deck or anchor chain, or pump out the dinghy, you just drop the hose overboard.
To pump the bilge, the hose goes down the companionway.
Mostly, the belt is off the pump, but it is stored next to it and is a one minute job to slip on. You can leave it on permanently, but it transmits engine noise to the hull so I prefer it off. The spring loaded mount allows the pump to move in sympathy with the flexibly mounted engine.
Has never been used in an emergency, but has worked well for other purposes for 25 yrs. Especially valued for pumping out a rainfilled dinghy on a winter's morning!!
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Richard
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:54   #47
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

I did much the same thing with my 12v washdown pump. Put a Y and can either draw seawater or from the bilge. I haven't had use it for the bilge but it outputs a lot of water.
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Old 06-01-2012, 13:23   #48
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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Tellie, I agree with most of what you said, I disagree that you are likely to damage your engine when using the cooling pump as an emergency bilge pump. You seem to be concerned that debris from the bilge will damage the impeller. The water is passing through two strainers before it gets to the pump, just like when it's being drawn from overboard. It's pretty unlikely that anything big enough to cause a sudden failure of the impeller would get through. If you're worried about sucking air and burning the impeller, you don't have enough of a problem to need to use the bypass.
If the cooling intake bypass is installed you have the choice to use it or not. If it is not installed, you don't have the choice.
DW used quality marine parts doing just what they were designed to do, direct the flow of water. I saw no sprinkler system parts. You are correct that boaters sometimes use the wrong hardware through ignorance and cheapness and sailors are the cheapest of all boaters. The wind is free and everything else should be. (Just kidding!) Don Gross, the owner of Groco, is an intelligent and experienced marine engineer. Don designed his Safety Seacock to allow you to do just what we're talking about. He seems to think it's a good idea and so do I.

Tellie, If you are ever in Miami at lunch time, drop by my store and we can continue this discussion over lunch. I'll buy.

Hey, thanks HopCar, that's a very nice offer. I just might take you up on that free lunch and discussion.
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Old 06-01-2012, 18:22   #49
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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Well...Like I said earlier, while testing my rebuild on the hard, I could empty a 5 gallon bucket in about 30 seconds at 2000 RPM. That's not too shabby. When Rule or Atwood measure their pumps it's with zero head pressure. Often times a bilge pump has to rise 10 ft. to get out of the boat. A Rule 2000 quickly becomes a 500 with that kind of lift. A cheap 3-way valve for the raw water intake is a good addition to your safety.
That's 10 gpm. 600 GPH is not really all that much at the end of the day. The Teeny, tiniest little honda is 37 gallons per min.
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Old 06-01-2012, 19:11   #50
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I should have didn't but need to. When I installed the new cummins I added a bypass. It was cheap and easy. Great for winterizing. Said before shit Oops and glad I did. The engine did not fail. The water receded and I found the problem. Interesting how slow the whale gusher hand pump was. Don't see why for the cost it is not a good extra.. Why not given were talking about a t a valve and some hose. That's what happened I used it the engine did not blow up.
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Old 06-01-2012, 20:02   #51
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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I should have didn't but need to. When I installed the new cummins I added a bypass. It was cheap and easy. Great for winterizing. Said before shit Oops and glad I did. The engine did not fail. The water receded and I found the problem. Interesting how slow the whale gusher hand pump was. Don't see why for the cost it is not a good extra.. Why not given were talking about a t a valve and some hose. That's what happened I used it the engine did not blow up.
This is certainly all true. I guess my point is it's probably not worth getting much worked up over either way. And it is also adding another point of failure in a main, critical water intake. When it's all said and done I will likely do it too, but consider all the options is all I'm sayin. If you really want to have a dewatering pump, know what you are getting.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:31   #52
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Red face Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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Originally Posted by msponer View Post
These centrifugal pumps that clamp around the prop shaft are interesting, since they pump a lot more than the tiny raw water impeller on an engine:
Fast Flow Emergency Bilge Pump

But do you guys feel it's likely an engine would start with the wiring harness, batteries, or starter solenoid under water? AGM batteries may not mind, but there are still the terminals: do they short out?

I wonder if anyone has taken a 120v AC pump-- some pools are saltwater these days, maybe there's inexpensive mass market pumps for them. Could be plugged into the little Honda generator that many people carry.
hello - i think the prop shaft pump is a great idea. could it also be used as the engines cooling water pump, as well or instead, with the t / y valve?

ps on the questions of submerged batteries, I advocate putting them in a SEALED battery box, or boxes, with grommets and sikaflex where the heavy cables enter / exit.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:15   #53
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

This pump's intake is the open space between the housing and the prop shaft. It only pumps when the water level in the boat is above the prop shaft. This is a disaster pump that will put out 100-200 gallons per minute. My engine with its normal pump puts out about 8 gallons per minute maximum. It would take a very short time to fill your waterlift and back up water into your engine, but only when the water level in your boat is high enough to cover the prop shaft.

John

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hello - i think the prop shaft pump is a great idea. could it also be used as the engines cooling water pump, as well or instead, with the t / y valve?

ps on the questions of submerged batteries, I advocate putting them in a SEALED battery box, or boxes, with grommets and sikaflex where the heavy cables enter / exit.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:10   #54
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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Originally Posted by Shanaly View Post
hello - i think the prop shaft pump is a great idea. could it also be used as the engines cooling water pump, as well or instead, with the t / y valve?

ps on the questions of submerged batteries, I advocate putting them in a SEALED battery box, or boxes, with grommets and sikaflex where the heavy cables enter / exit.
The problem with prop shaft pumps is the boat has to be in motion (prop shaft turning) and one may not want to be in motion in that event.

As for battery boxes, if they have the proper unvented lids on them water can not get into them unless they are turned sideways. This function is achieved by having a bubble of air trapped under the battery box lid. If it remains reasonably horizontal, it will also prevent water ingress to the box itself as the bubble extends down below the lip of the box. Standard Battery Box
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:48   #55
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

Battery boxes need to be ventilated at the top to allow gases to escape.
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Old 04-02-2012, 13:49   #56
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

Don't know if they're all this way, but now all those boxes that I've seen lately have a vent grill in the lid. I think 20 years ago or more I was told they made a little air pocket, but I don't think they've been that way for awhile.

John

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The problem with prop shaft pumps is the boat has to be in motion (prop shaft turning) and one may not want to be in motion in that event.

As for battery boxes, if they have the proper unvented lids on them water can not get into them unless they are turned sideways. This function is achieved by having a bubble of air trapped under the battery box lid. If it remains reasonably horizontal, it will also prevent water ingress to the box itself as the bubble extends down below the lip of the box. Standard Battery Box
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Old 04-02-2012, 14:10   #57
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

I have done it in an emergency situation, at the time I removed the suction line and put it in the bilge, it worked and I made it home. I use a 2" jabsco wash down pump and it does have a Y valve to act as an aux. bilge pump if needed.
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Old 04-02-2012, 14:48   #58
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

{Warning: Insert tongue in cheeck before proceeding.}

So I was thinking about those rapid-inflate air crash bags in autos. Maybe put four in the V-berth, four in the aft cabin, three each under the salon settees. Use manual release valves instead of the as-supplied rapid-deflate system so they would remain inflated. With the hull full of air balloons she wouldn't sink. I'd have time to sit back with a beer and evaluate life. Excuse me... evaluate options.
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Old 04-02-2012, 17:38   #59
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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Battery boxes need to be ventilated at the top to allow gases to escape.
The lids are not air tight and the gases can escape.

Quote:
New larger capacity! Vented and non-vented battery box for standard size, Series 24 batteries (10-1/8" maximum height). Attwood marine battery boxes meet USCG specification 183:420 as an OEM installed battery hold down system.
A vented lid on a marine battery box is useless AFAIC, unless it has a hose that extends up to the overhead or loops to go over board.
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Old 04-02-2012, 17:46   #60
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Re: Using Your Engine as a Bilge Pump

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{Warning: Insert tongue in cheeck before proceeding.}

So I was thinking about those rapid-inflate air crash bags in autos. Maybe put four in the V-berth, four in the aft cabin, three each under the salon settees. Use manual release valves instead of the as-supplied rapid-deflate system so they would remain inflated. With the hull full of air balloons she wouldn't sink. I'd have time to sit back with a beer and evaluate life. Excuse me... evaluate options.
Why not just have a couple long wave breakers along the outside of the hull just above the waterline, like on power boats, that have inflatable tubes that pop out, just like an inflatable life vest. Just hit a button and POP! You have a RIB, or similar to it.
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