Perkins Diesel questions - starter?

[Lepke]

Even if it's frozen, the Perkins is a good engine to rebuild. If you know mechanics, you can do it for about $2500 including having a qualified shop do the head, injector pump and injectors. You get new sleeves and pistons with an engine kit.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Neil.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Alaska Neil

This might be a months later, -but what did you find out when you checked the Perkins diesel? I have a boat in mind with a similar problem. Thanks!

Welcome aboard Neil! I've been aorud here quite a while, never owned a boat but always lurked until now!

Regarding the Perkins. It is not a 4-108, i know that for sure. I believe it is a M20, M25, or M30. THe engine is definitely not in the "best" shape possible, however I low balled the owner, and he rejected the $2.5k offer.

He came back to me with $3.5k, and i countered at $3k due to engine in not running state, the chainplates in need of replacing and rigging might as well and thruhull and seacocks likely ot be needing replacing(they lack any back plates and are just valves attached to thruhull).

Regardless we offered $3k for the boat, the owner accepted and as of Sunday(12/6) we are now proud owners.

The boat supposedly has a 10ft inflatable boston whaler with hard bottom(haven't pulled out yet), a 2hp Min Kota electric motor(havent tested yet), 3 anchors + chain in meh shape, a spinaker in great shape(never or rarely ever used), storm jib, 150 genoa(i think 150) in good condi, a backup main in "ok" shape + main in good shape.

Sure there will be other things we find as we go through it all, but that was what we know of current state.

Deeply inspect the engine before you make an offer. I wouldn't try to turn it over, or really mess with it, but i'd definitely recommend taking a look all over it, getting a feel for whats rusted out and what would be needing to be replaced. New engines run 8-12k. If you can invest 3 or 4k and get it running, and your getting the boat for 3k, given the boat is one that holds value well, your coming out ahead by around 2k if you replaced it outright.

ON the flip side, you'll have gained enough knowledge doing the whole job yourself, that if it DOES cut out on you, your going to be in the position of having the knowledge of where to dig in.

Dont be afraid in walking if the owner stays firm. Find your max price(mine was 3k), and hold to it. Our PO came back to us and said that he's going to wait out to a higher offer, and the following morning he sent a message said if you can do it today, its yours.

[Alaska Neil]

That all sounds like good advice. I've done a lot of engine repairs and doing your own work is the best way to learn that & your way around the boat.

I'm now back on the market looking for a full keel diesel rig between 26' and 30.' I'd love to hear what you learn and need to do to get your boat in shape. I'm headed down to the Seattle area where I have a travel van parked early this spring so I can take a look around for myself. The internet is a great connection for learning & connecting in the meantime.

Thanks
neil@sustainablehomer.org

[Ribbit]

Congratulations!

These are my favourite style of boat by a mile (the International Folkboat type), and I hope you have far more fun with it than can possibly be imagined at the moment.

I am hoping to end up with something similar, but the "next size up" (up to about 33 ft loa), mainly for more water, fuel, and food storage, so I can anchor in nice places for longer (it'll keep me away from ATM's).

Nothing wrong with other types particularly, but after years of slamming into nasty vertical faced waves locally, my brains finally fell out. So smoother motion for the win.

[chowdan]

I finally got some photos of the beast!

I found the pully on the crankshaft(?) is cracked, and the previous owner or owners had guerrilla glued it back together Anyone able to confirm make/model? I need to pull the injectors off to be able to fully read the label, but the label is pretty worn so not confident in it.

I can't seem to get my google drive images to appear here so Ill just attach them all to the thread.

VIewing inside the radiator point, we see there is significant amount of rust color, but no liquid? We draw directly from a seacock below water line. Should there be water in it constantly even when off?

Removing the oil cap, i see no oil what so ever, but no rust either.

The pully that is cracked i believe is the crankshaft pully. It is the lower left one when viewing the full view of the engine.

Anyone able to identify this model of perkins?

I was trying to see if i can get the engine to turn over with a pipe wrench. Since the nut is set in a bit, i felt the pully push in and i realized there was guerrilla glue in there! Obviously that will need to be replaced :P

Also where is the starter located? on the backside or is it the top center unit within the belt?

[Charlie]

Chowdan a new engine does not raise the value of the boat the entire cost of the engine install. e.g. A $12k engine put in a boat might only value the boat at $6k. Thus the reason for the outboard. You may be able to get the existing engine running but if you have to pay much labor you might be better off taking the engine out and lightening the load for sail performance. I think that a good idea is to find out the manufacture and then read up on the engine. The starter has to be near the flywheel and AFAIK they are never connected with belts. Once you get a socket on the crankshaft and have ascertained whether or not it can turn or not. A good start is to change all of the fluids and inspect there condition. All of these maintenance items can be done without much cost. Good luck and I am sure you will get lots of help from people should you decide to proceed with saving the engine.

[Cheechako]

I cant expand your photos for some reason and my computer locks up when I try. But I will say, if you don't know what a starter looks like, not sure you should be trying this yourself. Not meant as a dig.... just it's gonna be hard...

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I cant expand your photos for some reason and my computer locks up when I try. But I will say, if you don't know what a starter looks like, not sure you should be trying this yourself. Not meant as a dig.... just it's gonna be hard...

Completely understand, however hows one to learn without ever diving in with fear of it being hard? Maybe an ignorant view, or may be foolish, so be it. But i've taught myself programming(constantly a learning process), and never been to college, I think i will be able to get there eventually.

Definitely understand that this will be a giant bloody mess and a giant pain in my ass but in the end of the whole thing, ill learn something, whether its good or not is a whooolllee different story.

On a side note i've picked up Nigel Calder's marine diesel engines book that i've started reading.

[basssears]

Well if you do the work yourself you would have very little to lose while you get a crash course in diesels so I say go for it I'm in the same place of learning marine diesels so good to have company...

-- Bass

[Neptune's Gear]

The top right thing in the belt is the alternator to charge the battery. Starter is not visible in the pics, guess it is at the back somewhere. Top centre in the belt looks like the water circ pump - fresh water - it appears that the engine is not raw (salt) water cooled directly, but uses the raw water to cool a closed fresh water circ system, via the heat exchanger on the top - the thing you took the cap off. It is concerning that there is no water in there!
The little bronze pump on the front is the raw water pump. The broken pulley is indeed the the crank pulley. If you cannot turn the engine with that, that is a very bad sign.
Personally Id remove the injectors and try again (this will allow any water inside to come out thru the injector holes, rather than try to be compressed, thereby breaking something critical - although as there is no water visible in the heat exchanger, it may already be too late :-(.
Is there any oil on the dipstick? What color, if any, and is it below, at or over the full mark?

[TranceNT]

That looks a lot like the Perkins Perama M20 --- the original model in the Perama series.
Lots of stuff available (Documentation, parts, etc..)
Have a look at: perkins perama M20 on Google.

Cheers,
Terry

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by TranceNT

That looks a lot like the Perkins Perama M20 --- the original model in the Perama series.
Lots of stuff available (Documentation, parts, etc..)
Have a look at: perkins perama M20 on Google.

Cheers,
Terry

Thanks! Definitely looks like mine, though the m25 and m30 also look similar.

Going to the boat tonight to pull injectors to see if i can hand crank it. Will probably get a can of pb blaster or sea foam to spray inside the cylinders as well with the injectors off, ill be able to read the label a lot easier.

My main goal right now is just to see if i can get it to turn over by hand then i'll go from there.

[TranceNT]

The crankshaft pulley on the M20 is same as yours. If your identification plate is still legible and it is the M20, there is probably quite a few hours in its history.

Boatdiesel.com (free registration) has the details and manuals.

The Perama series, and the marinised D3/152 series are very good engines and a rebuild (if necessary) should not be out of the question, the sound of a healthy 3 cylinder 4 stroke is unique and somehow quite pleasant.

The apparent age and perhaps associated number of starts brings my earlier suggestion about worn starter motor brushes just a little closer to the possible issue of no current flow through the series windings of stator and armature when the solenoid is energised. There are of course, other possible causes of the 'no-go'.

Interesting times ahead?

Cheers, Terry

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by TranceNT

The crankshaft pulley on the M20 is same as yours. If your identification plate is still legible and it is the M20, there is probably quite a few hours in its history.

Boatdiesel.com (free registration) has the details and manuals.

The Perama series, and the marinised D3/152 series are very good engines and a rebuild (if necessary) should not be out of the question, the sound of a healthy 3 cylinder 4 stroke is unique and somehow quite pleasant.

The apparent age and perhaps associated number of starts brings my earlier suggestion about worn starter motor brushes just a little closer to the possible issue of no current flow through the series windings of stator and armature when the solenoid is energised. There are of course, other possible causes of the 'no-go'.

Interesting times ahead?

Cheers, Terry

I came across boatdiesel.com last night! Quite an amazing site! Really helpful!

I'm hoping ill be able to dig into the engine more tomorrow when at the boat. Didn't make it up today/tonight, so planning on spending the days up at the boat.

Definitely a long road ahead but will be a VERY interesting road ahead! Excited that the boats mine and even more excited that I am learning and will continue to learn! Plus by next season the boat will be sparkling clean regardless if the inboard is running and will be taking us on wonderful adventures!