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Old 10-12-2017, 23:20   #1
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Help identifying a Perkins Starter

I've run into a problem with my boat that I'm hoping you all can help me out with.

I'm trying to get the engine running on our boat. We bought her last winter on the hard, got her in the water this summer, and been slowly working on her since. Our Christmas present to each other is to get her running by Christmas time so that we can take her out for a Christmas sail on our boat.



Earlier this summer (after I rewired the starter button) the engine gave a few anemic cranks. Saturday, when I tried it, the solenoid engaged but didn't crank at all. The batteries and wiring are good, and the motor isn't seized so I took the starter out.



The engine is a Perkins 4.108M. Here are the pictures of the starter. The outside at least is pretty ugly.





My main concern is... what is it? I found a number and was able to clean it up enough to read 1960769. But google is failing on me here. Google is somehow smart enough to know when I do a search for "1960769 starter" that this is a Perkins, but none of the pages it finds for me have that number anywhere. My plan was to take it somewhere tomorrow and get it tested, but I hate walking into a shop knowing nothing, and the last thing I want to do is get a replacement that isn't going to fit my engine.



So if you fine people can avail me of your knowledge and lead me down a path path of enlightenment, I would be eternally grateful.
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Old 11-12-2017, 00:47   #2
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Where are you located?
Have a browse through here, I know its about Volvo but I recall Perkins mentioned also.. And sometimes Perkins parts are same as Volvo's on marine engines

Predatory Volvo Parts Pricing

Volvo incompetence

Edit:

Maybe can find replacement part number here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=crui...IoBDAAegQIGhAF
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Old 11-12-2017, 00:58   #3
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

I recently replace the starter on my 4-236 and the spare was a delco remy. The only difference was the spacer plate. That spacer is pretty pricey but allows after market starters. Order and check prices from TAD. Trans Atlantic diesel.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:48   #4
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

That's an old, heavy, rugged Delco starter, can easily and economically be rebuilt by any starter shop.

The most pertinent things to match are the rotation, number of teeth (though in some instances there are overlaps; sometimes different numbers of drive teeth are applicable to the same engine), rotation and KW.

Your starter is direct drive, kinda old school, again, heavy but reliable.

If they're available, I like going to the more modern alternative, the gear reduction starter. They're smaller and lighter (read; easier to install) and seem to provide faster engine rotation.

I think this might be the replacement in gear reduction form for your engine, but you need to verify your rotation and tooth count.

https://www.amazon.com/Starter-Delco.../dp/B01MSSWF0F




Alternatively, a good starter repair shop will be able to recommend the correct starter to replace your existing starter.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:07   #5
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Agree with Jimbunyard: Get the new improved and smaller version.
I did for my 4-108. I overhauled the old Delco starter then stored it onboard in a sealed bag for a spare.

As far as the rusty starter on the picture: If corroded that bad on the outside it may have been exposed to salt spray and an ignorant previous owner, possible internal corrosion and possible neglected boat with deferred maintenance from bow to stern
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:10   #6
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, garlicfiend.
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Old 11-12-2017, 06:30   #7
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Hi Garlicfiend and by the way, welcome to the forum.

You don't mention where you're located but in the US I take my boat starters to a plain old auto alternator/starter repair shop and they are able to do a complete rebuild if needed but also can identify the starter. No difference in the guts and a lot cheaper than going to a "marine" shop for the repair.
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Old 11-12-2017, 06:33   #8
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

The Delco replacement is #28MT. If you are interested I have a Lucas starter that is orig equip for 4-108's. I'll sell it at a reasonable price but it prob weighs 50 lbs and unless you can pu in S> Fl frt may be prohibitive. Bob
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:30   #9
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Are you certain the starter is the issue here? You said that the engine initially cranked a few times but in the next test not at all. So in your first test, the starter and solenoid worked... Have you attempted to make sure the engine isn't partially seized or hydro-locked?
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:46   #10
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

I had same issue with starter on my Perkins 4-236 Engine. Thought too it was going to be a long complex process and in the end very expensive replacement process. As a start I removed it and took it to our local ‘nothing special’ alternator, starter, battery shop. Turns out a lot of farm equipment, especially big irrigation pumps, use Perkins 108s and 4-236s and they instantly recognized what I brought in and they had several replacements in inventory! To the point about different starter to engine clearances/ mountings... they said they would need to make a minor modification to the new starter and did I want to wait 15-20 minutes or come back! Total cost for new Deco starter and minor mod... about $130 and total time at shop about 30 minutes. It was a very happy end to what I initially thought was going to be a day on the phone... maybe a day driving around Annapolis, MD visiting Marine shops and possibly $400-500 in the end.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:12   #11
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Have it rebuilt, sandblasted and repainted while they are at it.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:34   #12
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

If you are astute enough with tools to remove it, why not hook up a set of jumper cables while it is out and see if the bendix engages, or anything happens at all? At least then you'll know if the starter is the end of all your problems, or just the beginning. If the bearings are seized, simple enough fix at the shop, but if like some others have mentioned, if you have rings that are seized, way different issue. Good luck with all of it, Perkins are a great source of power all over the world.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:56   #13
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

IF the starter is cruddy inside (looks likely!) the brushes dont make good contact with the rotor. It may spin, especially if testing sitting on the bench, but when it engages the flywheel, doesn't have enough power and stalls. Often, just opening the starter, cleaning it out completely, cleaning up the rotor with a strip of sand paper will make it great. I wanted to rebuild my Perkins starter before going offshore, bought brushes etc. When I opened it up and cleaned it, the brushes were fine, little wear, but it was cruddy inside. The brushes really dont wear that fast on a boat starter. Think of how many times a car starter gets used in comparison... heck maybe 20 times a day... and those will often last the life of a car without replacement.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:11   #14
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Looks like a Delco Starter,the # you note is the part number of the Front Drive Flange only,not the Starter #.
Had mine overhauled last year,new bushings-solenoid-pinion and brushes
Cost $ 180.00 ( on Vancouver Island )
Just gave the model and serial number to to shop
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:28   #15
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Re: Help identifying a Perkins Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by garlicfiend View Post
I've run into a problem with my boat that I'm hoping you all can help me out with.

I'm trying to get the engine running on our boat. We bought her last winter on the hard, got her in the water this summer, and been slowly working on her since. Our Christmas present to each other is to get her running by Christmas time so that we can take her out for a Christmas sail on our boat.



Earlier this summer (after I rewired the starter button) the engine gave a few anemic cranks. Saturday, when I tried it, the solenoid engaged but didn't crank at all. The batteries and wiring are good, and the motor isn't seized so I took the starter out.



The engine is a Perkins 4.108M. Here are the pictures of the starter. The outside at least is pretty ugly.





My main concern is... what is it? I found a number and was able to clean it up enough to read 1960769. But google is failing on me here. Google is somehow smart enough to know when I do a search for "1960769 starter" that this is a Perkins, but none of the pages it finds for me have that number anywhere. My plan was to take it somewhere tomorrow and get it tested, but I hate walking into a shop knowing nothing, and the last thing I want to do is get a replacement that isn't going to fit my engine.



So if you fine people can avail me of your knowledge and lead me down a path path of enlightenment, I would be eternally grateful.
In addition to the excellent advice below it is worth checking the main earth cable. Try earthing the cable to one of the bolts on the starter motor. If you get a different starter motor spin then you have connection problems somewhere between the batteries and the earth on the engine block.
Hint. Thoroughly clean the female thread in the engine block, the stud and the cable terminations.
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