Help identifying a Perkins Starter

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by lordgeoff

In addition to the excellent advice below it is worth checking the main earth cable. Try earthing the cable to one of the bolts on the starter motor. If you get a different starter motor spin then you have connection problems somewhere between the batteries and the earth on the engine block.
Hint. Thoroughly clean the female thread in the engine block, the stud and the cable terminations.

For sure. Cable issues, dirty or the ground cable to a rusty bolt or block are often the only issue.

[garlicfiend]

Wow, thank you everyone for all your great replies!

You've given me a lot of great information here.

Originally Posted by roberttigar

The Delco replacement is #28MT. If you are interested I have a Lucas starter that is orig equip for 4-108's. I'll sell it at a reasonable price but it prob weighs 50 lbs and unless you can pu in S> Fl frt may be prohibitive. Bob

I'm up near Seattle, so a bit too much of a drive I'm afraid, lol.

Does the 28MT need the aluminum spacer to fit?

The amazon link jimbunyard posted was for "Delco OSGR (6575), Delco Remy, 10461448" (so many numbers ).

That's listed at $128.70 + $82.95 shipping. But I found a 28MT for $85.99 with free shipping (amazon prime).

http://a.co/0og3TDW - that's a huge price difference.

And so this is where I get really confused... What's the difference? Are all 4.108's sort of standard with what starters they can take?

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

The most pertinent things to match are the rotation, number of teeth (though in some instances there are overlaps; sometimes different numbers of drive teeth are applicable to the same engine), rotation and KW.

My starter has 12 teeth. I jumped it to a battery this morning, but that just showed me the motor won't rotate. So god knows what the rotation is. But... shouldn't the rotation be the same for all 4.108 starters? I mean, there is a big gear on the front of the engine which rotates the crankshaft... don't all 4.108's crank in the same direction?

The 28MT I linked says "10T 28MT 2.8KW 12V CW", so ten teeth, 2.8KW, 12 Volt, clockwise rotation. The 6575 has 12 teeth, but sometimes 10 is okay?

I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent, competent individual, but this is crazy making.

[garlicfiend]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

For sure. Cable issues, dirty or the ground cable to a rusty bolt or block are often the only issue.

The cables are good. The previous owner started a refit (at least I think that's what he was trying to do) and seemed to start with the electrical system. Everything between the engine, starter, batteries, inverter, and solar panel was solid as a rock. Everything past the main accessory switch was a corroded rat's nest I had to rip out. But I've gone over all the electrical, and all the vital stuff is good.

Also, I jumped the started this morning, and the solenoid pushes the gear into place, but it won't spin. So verified something in it is seized.

[Zoidislander]

I recently had a similar issue with my Perkins starter. Marcus at TransAtlantic Diesel was most helpful. He was able to identify my old Delco starter, and sell me a new more modern started for less $$ than is was quoted locally for a rebuild of the old Delco. I am very pleased with the results.

[Cheechako]

OK, yeah, if it wont spin on the bench it's got problems inside. With the look of the outside... has it been in salt water, partial sinking? Anyway, open it up and look. Just take the end cap off (opposite end of the drive gear). It may be total rust inside or look pretty good.

[svHyLyte]

You might find this of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VYq...CVlxK8ETIBXgG_

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It may be total rust inside or look pretty good.

Yes, the inside could go either way.

The starter on my old Westerbeke W58 (same engine as Perkins 4.154) looked like the OP's starter on the outside but perfect on the inside. The starter on the Mercruiser in my little ski boat looked perfect on the outside and completely rusted up on the inside.

[bigman1]

I agree with cheechako have it rebuilt.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Have it rebuilt, sandblasted and repainted while they are at it.

[garlicfiend]

Okay, I opened up the end of the starter. One of the long bolts sheared off in the process... that in itself would be its own little nightmare to deal with. But here is what I found:



To me, this looks pretty ugly. The large philips head screws on the outside that hold the armatures in place are all frozen... don't know if thing is really worth saving or shelling out for a shop to rebuild.

I'm willing to pony up for a new starter. I just wish there was a clear way to choose the right starter. Google gives me a thousand people selling a thousand different starters for the 4.108. I found a site selling a "New 28mt Starter Perkins Marine Engine 4-108 / 4-154" for 105.95 + free shipping... but I have a hard time just ordering one off the internet because (no offense) some guy on a forum said it would work.

As to why I don't go to a shop, well... I hate being that person that walks into a shop, utilizes their knowledge and expertise, then walks away without spending a dime because I can order what I need cheaper off the internet. I don't want to spend $200+ on a shop's starter I can get online for ~$100 because some guy in a shop said it's the right one. And guys in shops can be wrong as well (which has happened to me).

I dunno. I order parts off the internet to fix my cars all the time. I look up the part I need, order it, it comes in the mail. Then install the new part, and my car works. I am baffled why, with so many 4.108's banging about the planet, this seems to be so much more difficult.

[garlicfiend]

I'm really thinking of pulling the triggering and ordering this:

New 28mt Starter Perkins Marine Engine 4-108 / 4-154

I've cross-referenced a couple different sources, which all seem to imply that this will work just fine. It's the same starter that was used in the video posted above. If anyone can give me a "Yup, that would definitely work", it's sure make feel a lot better though...

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by garlicfiend

I've run into a problem with my boat that I'm hoping you all can help me out with.

I'm trying to get the engine running on our boat. We bought her last winter on the hard, got her in the water this summer, and been slowly working on her since. Our Christmas present to each other is to get her running by Christmas time so that we can take her out for a Christmas sail on our boat.



Earlier this summer (after I rewired the starter button) the engine gave a few anemic cranks. Saturday, when I tried it, the solenoid engaged but didn't crank at all. The batteries and wiring are good, and the motor isn't seized so I took the starter out.



The engine is a Perkins 4.108M. Here are the pictures of the starter. The outside at least is pretty ugly.





My main concern is... what is it? I found a number and was able to clean it up enough to read 1960769. But google is failing on me here. Google is somehow smart enough to know when I do a search for "1960769 starter" that this is a Perkins, but none of the pages it finds for me have that number anywhere. My plan was to take it somewhere tomorrow and get it tested, but I hate walking into a shop knowing nothing, and the last thing I want to do is get a replacement that isn't going to fit my engine.



So if you fine people can avail me of your knowledge and lead me down a path path of enlightenment, I would be eternally grateful.

If you contact Perkins and give them the serial number of the engine they will be able to give you the original configuration of that specific engine. Including its starter motor.

[jimbunyard]

Now that you've verified the tooth count, this is almost (99.99) certainly your starter in gear reduction form

https://www.amazon.com/Starter-Versa...words=10461448


111.44 new with free shipping










Your original starter is a 37MT, according to Delco

Medium & Heavy Duty Starters | Delco Remy

although this is subject to interpretation bias; Delco appears not to be particularly interested in helping its' end users determine what their original equipment is...imagine that!...

The inside of your starter doesn't look particularly bad, if you can get the local starter shop to look at it and give an estimate to rebuild, getting the gear reduction starter on line and having the original rebuilt as a spare makes a lot of sense, if you can afford it...

The 85.00 shipping charges almost certainly are a result of an error in the listed weight; the g/r starter doesn't weigh 70 lbs...in my opinion it's always better to order things verbally, via human, even (or especially) online...

[garlicfiend]

Thank you, jimbunyard.

I've been piecing together a picture from many different sources which seemed to imply that I need the 12-tooth 28MT, and your recommendation confirms that.

A lot of folks have said I should get the starter rebuilt, and one day I may, but for now I want to get our boat running before Christmas, and the Admiral will appreciate the security of new starter, I think.

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread, you guys were extraordinarily helpful!

[Joe Joyce]

Hello,

The photos show what I think is a Delco Remy starter.

The numbers you find on the starter are not Perkins, but Delco Remy.

I know of two starters used on the 4-108 Perkins.

Perkins# NA000623 and NA000034

Those are the part numbers I find in the Parts List I have for the 4-108 dated April 1975.

Regards,

Joe Joyce

[CSY Man]

Originally Posted by garlicfiend

Thank you, jimbunyard.

I've been piecing together a picture from many different sources which seemed to imply that I need the 12-tooth 28MT, and your recommendation confirms that.

A lot of folks have said I should get the starter rebuilt, and one day I may, but for now I want to get our boat running before Christmas, and the Admiral will appreciate the security of new starter, I think.

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread, you guys were extraordinarily helpful!

One day you may get the starter rebuilt but not now?
Did I miss something?
Are you putting that rusty old starter back on the boat?.