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Old 27-04-2008, 03:24   #1
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Bio-Diesel

This kind of new fuel is quite new to me and for that matter, NZ. If I understand correctly, the US has used this stuff for awhile now, is that correct? I also understand that it is used only in a percentage with normal Diesel. Is that also correct? So why?? Why is it that the fuel is not run 100%. The reason I am asking is that we have a guy here running his boat on Bio and has been for maybe two years now. 100% Bio and has not had any problems. So is it a case of there are different Bio-fuels and you guy's have something different in you mix that here? He has had such a good run from it, that one other and myself are looking at getting a quantity of it and trying it. The guy using it presently has had no noticeable negative affects from it. The engine uses the same quantity of fuel, starts OK and the one major plus is that he has a clean burning Exhaust. No black soot at all.
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Old 27-04-2008, 04:36   #2
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one of the problems with pure bio is that it gels at low temperatures. i think the mix will prevent this from happening.
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Old 27-04-2008, 05:05   #3
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Biofuels are fuels made from biological products. Two examples are ethanol and biodiesel.
Ethanol is a commercial alcohol that is made today from grain. It can also be made from cellulose fibres such as straw, but this is a new approach and is still under development.
Biodiesel is a diesel fuel substitute that can be made (by “transesterification”) from variety of vegetable oils and animal fats (e.g., recycled cooking greases), and can be blended with diesel, resulting in lower GHG emissions.
The "B" factor describes the amount of biodiesel in any fuel mixture:
- fuel containing 20% biodiesel is labeled B20,
- pure biodiesel is referred to as B100.
Blends of 20 percent biodiesel with 80 percent petroleum diesel (B20) can generally be used in unmodified diesel engines, however an increasing number of Original Equipment Manufacturers are endorsing the use of lower biodiesel blends (B5, 5%) in their engines.
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Old 27-04-2008, 13:24   #4
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Price....Lubricity...Impurities. It also takes fossil fuel to transport the biodiesel to market.
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Old 27-04-2008, 13:43   #5
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Don't take my replies the wrong way please. I am trying to cover all aspects of this and want to ensure I am covering every concievable possible problem. Price! well this is the main reason I am looking at it. Our Diesel is currently at NZ$1.46/ltr at the pump and is rising weekly on average. This Bio-fuel is only NZ$00.54/ltr. Yes I will have to transport it from 130kms away. But we intend to buy several 300ltr drums at a time. This would power both my boat and my 4WD diesel powered vehicle that would also then be doing the transporting. Impurities! well it seems that this stuff is highly filtered. But even if I had to replace a filter more often, it's hardly a negative. Waxy in cold temps! well I doubt we would get cold enough here to have that an issue. And besides, the coldest part of winter I don't go out anyway. Lubricity! Now this is the question I have more on my mind. I don't think lubricity within the cylinder will be any issue. As both Petrol and Diesel engines have been run with LPG with no detrimental affects. In fact, many gas powered vehicles have done many more miles because there is not the carbon in the cyl. to cause wear. Even the oil remains clean in Gas powered engines. The injector pump would worry me slightly. It is fully lubed by the Diesel. But I wonder if a simple dose of upper cyl lube in the tank would solve that problem and any possible cyl. lube prob. Keep coming up with the negatives guys, I want to ensure I am thinking of everything. Of course ultimately, I need to actually do it. I am happy to place my road vehicle into a possible path of destruction, but I don't want the Boat engine to be unreliable when I am out at sea.
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Old 27-04-2008, 14:14   #6
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Here are two good sources on using biodiesel.

Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever

Biodiesel and your vehicle: Journey to Forever

Edit: Okay, really, one source, two different pages within, sorry. :P

Edit2: I also wanted to add, I'm impressed at the biodiesel makers in NZ. The ones here are for the most part just selling the stuff at the same price as regular diesel and pocketing the profits.
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Old 27-04-2008, 15:45   #7
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Wheels, They are running 100% biodiesel here in Minnesota with sub 0 F temperatures with no bad effects. They did try canola oil a couple of years ago and had gelling troubles. As I mentioned on another thread there is a new process developed at the U of M and Augsburg College to produce biodiesel from Algae that shows great promise. the first plant is now being built and will produce about 3,000,000 by early fall. Google algae biodiesel, biodiesel Isanti or McGyan process. This process will allow the fuel to be produced on the farm. It uses much less water than grain alcohol. It's a pretty exciting new development.
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Old 27-04-2008, 16:54   #8
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Pure Biodiesel is basically chemically very similar to petroleum based diesel. The issues a lot of people talk about are more from using other bio-fuel alternatives in lieu of diesel -- primarily running vegetable oil directly in a diesel engine. It's possible if the oil is heated up to thin its viscosity, but then again vegetable oil in pure form costs as much as if not more as a gallon of diesel does.

This is where the using old fryer grease comes in, and in those cases if it's not totally pure and processed you can have some probs.
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Old 27-04-2008, 17:02   #9
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The BC government has stated that it plans to make it mandatory for oil companies to put 20% ethanol in all fuels sold in BC , diesel included. This will disolve fibreglas fuel tanks , which will blow your injectors, while starving more third world people,all so we can feel good about ourselves.
Know what your tanks are made of before filling up in BC.
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Old 27-04-2008, 20:59   #10
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Wheels, there are guys running cars and boats for years and claiming no problems. And, some big engine makers (Cat?) will not warranty their engines if you run 100% BD, I think they draw the line at 20% or so and they claim they CAN tell when BD has damaged an engine.

Somewhere in between is the truth, there's plenty on the web about BD and other miracle fuels. (Ahem.) And plenty of variation in how BD is made.
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Old 27-04-2008, 21:35   #11
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Alan,

Here are a couple links that may be of interest.

Biodiesel.org - Fuel Fact Sheets

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad...r/dfuelrpt.pdf
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Old 28-04-2008, 00:02   #12
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Thanks Guy's. Ethanol, now that is a product I can see as a big big headache if it is added to Diesel. I can totally understand manufacturers not warranting the engines if high percentages of Ethanol are in the fuel.
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Old 28-04-2008, 05:08   #13
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Alan I run 100% biodiesel in my truck here in the states. I have posted under a different thread regarding biodiesel as well. Biodiesel is a great fuel and I am a very big advocate. The prefered way to use biodiesel is from waste cooking oil and processing it using methanol and Lye. This is a waste product and large scale producers use virgin oil. Anyone interested in the process to make it yourself get in touch and I can point you in the right direction. This can be time consuming. Biodiesel is great for your engine 2 percent biodiesel mixed with regular diesel adds 80% lubricicity to your engine. Yes it will begin to clog your filters starting anything below 40-50 degress F when run at 100 perecent but blended with 20 percent regular diesel or/and mixed with a diesel additive this has not been an issue in below freezing weather. Just make sure the bio is good quality and filtered properly. Bio should run fine in any diesel and actually prolong the life by lubrication, the viscocity is similar to diesel and sprays through injectors just fine. (Veg oil or waste oil not processed is entirely different from biodiesel as a side note.) Better for your health than diesel exhaust and nothing like the smell of fried chicken from the exhaust!!
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Old 28-04-2008, 09:14   #14
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Hi 42AFJ

Would be interested if you could point me in the right direction.

Actually for a rather larger project than the boat or a truck but presently just chasing the idea.

Steve
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Old 28-04-2008, 09:59   #15
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Alan;

One point I don't think anyone mentioned - Biodiesel acts as a solvent.That is why fuel filters can clog, it is cleaning your system. Some car engines, and I assume marine diesel engines, have seals that can be damaged by the fuel. You should find out if this is the case with your engine before runing anything over b20 (20% biodiesel).

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