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Old 12-08-2015, 05:05   #331
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Howey View Post
Charger and genset will keep up with the aircons, but so will the solar panels. You don't even need the genset. I've got 2kw worth of solar going on the roof, and on days when you need the aircon, the solar is probably pumping out a lot of energy.
2kw isn't enough to cool a 50' cat, you'll need at least twice that, maybe more. I'm running dual 12yo 16kbtu ACs that pull ~3kw total steady state (total, plus startup). They would struggle to keep up in the middle of the day in the tropics.

The good news is we really don't use AC much at anchor, maybe on those really hot/heavy days we'll use it in the early evening to cool the boat down, then it's good all night. At a dock, shorepower is your friend.

BTW, Wayfinder is a beautiful boat!
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:36   #332
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
With the exception of an office aft in the Master suite, I plan to order a near copy of Wayfinder.

I'm wondering how a battery bank will handle a small dive compressor. Thoughts?

I also plan on an aluminum 13 ft dinghy. I dove out of one in Australia years ago. Definitely the way to go. Which one did you go with?

Duncan mentioned to me to keep that weight to 600lbs a couple weeks ago. Your 800lbs seems more like what i'd need capacity for. Cant wait to see pics of your davit system.
I'd keep the dinghy weight to 0lbs if possible.

I imagine I could gain half a knot average over a traveling day without the big dinghy, but I've heard from a SF50 owner who has the same dinghy, and he's still hitting 15 knots with that weight back there. If I can stay in the 8-10 knot range, I'm happy. And Duncan gets upset when I even mention speeds this slow. He takes it as an insult. The boat is more of a 10-12 knot boat. But I won't be pressing, and I have a load on the stern.

800 is wet and loaded, btw. Fuel, safety gear, all that. I'll let you know how it performs.

The boat is an AB ALX 13. They're made in Columbia, South America. Amazing boats. The bow locker is enormous. The fuel tank fits up there, as well as the anchor and rode. Puts a lot of weight forward, and gives you a big seat up in the bow. Tons of storage aft because of the fuel tank location. The entire helm bench is empty, as well as half the bench amidships. You can dive out of this thing without having an ounce of gear at anyone's feet. Plus, I opted for a bimini top, so you can stay out all day. Pack a lunch. Take a nap. Whatever.

For the dive compressor, I'd just look at the draw. A 24V compressor would be more efficient (fill faster). Depends on how many batteries you put in. You've basically got a reservoir of electrons there, and the solar panels and genset can top that reservoir up. Even if the reservoir is draining faster than it's filling, if you only need it for an hour, you're okay. You turn off the compressor, and the electrons keep flowing in from the panels (or wind generator, or genset).

Same with the aircons. The other poster is probably right about not being able to run them consistently; I'd have to see what the compressors draw at 24V to know, but if you can run them for 3-4 hours, that's plenty to knock off the heat and humidity on a still day. Or run just one aircon for the master at night. The Fischer Panda is rigged to turn on automatically when the batteries are low, so you could also rely on that. And with that genset port and aft, with the master forward and starboard, you may never hear it come on.
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Old 12-08-2015, 19:44   #333
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Love the boat. Thanks for sharing your experience.


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Old 12-08-2015, 20:58   #334
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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With the exception of an office aft in the Master suite, I plan to order a near copy of Wayfinder.
Very cool. I look forward to seeing your office design. I toyed with something similar, then decided to make the nav station an office of sorts. I'll probably do most of my writing in the cockpit. But there's something enticing about a dedicated office in the boat.
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Old 13-08-2015, 10:29   #335
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"





TheSailingChannel.TV has just released Suliere: Cuba and the Ragged Islands, a 3-part video series about sailing to Hemingway Marina, visiting old Havana and the Cuban countryside, then sailing on to the Ragged Islands of the Bahamas.

Suliere is a St. Francis 50 sailed by Paul and Leslie Burgess. The full HD documentary is available worldwide for purchase or rental on Vimeo SailFlix VOD. Rent $5.99 / Buy $12.99 (stream + download) at https://vimeo.com/ondemand/cubaraggedislands

You can watch the extended 7 minute trailer here.

Also by Paul Burgess...

Suliere: The Crossing
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/sulierethecrossing

Suliere: Cruising the Exumas and Jumentos
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/cruisingexumasjumentos
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Old 13-08-2015, 12:14   #336
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Originally Posted by Hugh Howey View Post
For sure. I'll be logging this for my own edification. I'll share everything I find.

Here's another walkthrough from earlier this week, with more of the interior put together. The flooring is so much better than I could've hoped.

https://youtu.be/WowuOqOUXmY
Hi Hugh

So many things to comment on – Wayfinder is looking awesome.

I picked up on the dingy weight disscussion. I really don’t think you need to worry. On one delivery we had a 900kg (+- 1800lb) “Fun Boat” on the back. It did slow us down, but otherwise no issues.

The floor looks great. By coincidence we’ve been looking at something almost identical for our build. The traditionalists probably won’t agree, but there are so many more options than teak and holly.

Do you have a provisional launch date yet?

Best

Graham
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Old 13-08-2015, 12:54   #337
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Hi Hugh

So many things to comment on – Wayfinder is looking awesome.

I picked up on the dingy weight disscussion. I really don’t think you need to worry. On one delivery we had a 900kg (+- 1800lb) “Fun Boat” on the back. It did slow us down, but otherwise no issues.

The floor looks great. By coincidence we’ve been looking at something almost identical for our build. The traditionalists probably won’t agree, but there are so many more options than teak and holly.

Do you have a provisional launch date yet?

Best

Graham
Hey Graham, great to hear from you! I remember chatting about the funboat delivery. Part of the reason I felt comfortable with this dinghy selection. These really are amazing boats.

Launch date is either the 28th of this month or the first week of September. There will still be a week or two of tweaking and sea trials here, and then some more tweaking in Cape Town by the rigger, the Raymarine folk, and the Mastervolt people. We will leave Cape Town and head for the Caribbean mid-October.
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Old 13-08-2015, 18:01   #338
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

A dingy worth consideration. Very light and stable and can be fitted out as you like. St Francis could assemble the kit. low hp reqt

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Old 13-08-2015, 20:01   #339
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Hey all, I just added some photos from the yard to my Gallery page:

Wayfinder - August 13th - The Wayfinder - Hugh C. Howey

An update on the build:

This past week has been one of the happiest of my life. I can't describe the feeling I get every morning waking up in St. Francis Bay, knowing my boat is coming together just a few minutes drive away. It's like Christmas morning as a kid every single day.

It's so useful being here during the build process. This week, I laid out the nav station and the helm station. Jaco printed out 1:1 gauges and screens of every component, so I could move them around, imagine being underway, and get it all exactly where I want. Then they mask off the helm and the carbon fiber nav station and draw a precise layout, so everything lines up exactly. Most of the systems are now in place. It's all coming together very fast.

We put the Lithium Ion batteries in today as well. These things are sexy. Can't wait to charge them up and see how they work.

The dinghy also arrived today. She's a beaut. I think the davit system is going to work out really well, but we won't know until it's all installed. That's one of the big projects remaining and should get knocked out next week.

The genset and mast are both arriving next week as well. There's a fair bit of wiring to do, but many of the components are already in place. The hull is getting some paint tonight; the bottom coats are going on as well. The targa top is secured. Next week should see the ceiling panels go up.

Oh, and the upholsterer, Mario, showed up today with the backrest cushions. This settee design is the most comfortable I've ever tried. It works so well. And the yellow fabric for the cockpit cushions looks amazing. Mario stitched up some covers for the helm cushions, which we'll use during long passages.

The entire experience has been a blast. I almost forget that I'm going to try and sail this thing around the world. The build process has been so much fun that it feels like this is the enjoyable thing I was after when I bought the boat. But then I sit in the cockpit, or the saloon, and I imagine being at anchor in the Bahamas, and I remember what all of this is about, and I can barely contain myself. It doesn't seem real. But it seems more real every day as she really comes together.
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Old 14-08-2015, 16:14   #340
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Hugh, your excitement is palpable! Don't know if you've seen this, but a taste of what you're in for!


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Old 14-08-2015, 18:53   #341
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

Hugh, any chance you could outline your electrical system for us? I understand you went with 24v DC...was it easy to find 24v components? Which components are 24v? Where's you find them? Do you also use a 12v house bank? If so, which components are 12v? How did you set up your DC system? What's your DC Amp capacity? What's your solar capacity? You're using a DC generator...will you be able to run large draw AC components through an inverter and your house battery bank? Is it the lithium ion batteries that allow that? Thanks for any information you can provide. Cliff


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Old 14-08-2015, 21:09   #342
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Hugh, any chance you could outline your electrical system for us? I understand you went with 24v DC...was it easy to find 24v components? Which components are 24v? Where's you find them? Do you also use a 12v house bank? If so, which components are 12v? How did you set up your DC system? What's your DC Amp capacity? What's your solar capacity? You're using a DC generator...will you be able to run large draw AC components through an inverter and your house battery bank? Is it the lithium ion batteries that allow that? Thanks for any information you can provide. Cliff


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Hey Cliff,

The only 12V batteries are the starting batteries for the engines. There is 900 amp hours in the 24V house bank. The only 12V systems are the VHF and a few 12V outlets. There might be one other thing I'm forgetting about. They use step-down transformers to get their power. Finding 24V items wasn't hard at all. Most boats over 50' in length use 24V as much as possible.

The solar panels put out nearly 2kw of power. There are 5 panels going on the boat. Each one does 350W, I believe.

The battery bank and DC generator will allow continuous use of AC systems (like aircon, TV, microwave). The aircons have soft starts on them. The genset will kick on automatically if the batteries get low. I'll report on this as I use the system.
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Old 14-08-2015, 23:07   #343
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

I'm curious if you considered a Lithium Phosphate battery bank for this setup and if Duncan had anything to say about it.

I read they have something like 80% useable power rather than 30% in LiOn and you can charge them at a MUCH higher amperage.

I'd think that when running aircon off of batteries a solution that was very quickly charged would be a hot setup.

More expensive in the front end but less expensive over time.

But, they are new technology and not so tried and true.

Thoughts?
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Old 14-08-2015, 23:32   #344
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
I'm curious if you considered a Lithium Phosphate battery bank for this setup and if Duncan had anything to say about it.

I read they have something like 80% useable power rather than 30% in LiOn and you can charge them at a MUCH higher amperage.

I'd think that when running aircon off of batteries a solution that was very quickly charged would be a hot setup.

More expensive in the front end but less expensive over time.

But, they are new technology and not so tried and true.

Thoughts?
I may have mispoken. These might be LiPO batteries. Because the 80% looks familiar.

I'm also considering taking one of the Yanmars out after a year or so and putting an electric motor on the starboard side, so I have one of each. Two props for maneuvering around the docks, a diesel engine for reliable range, and an electric for added speed whenever the sun is shining. I feel like this is the future. You've got two hulls; why double up on the diesels when most cats run fine on one?
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Old 15-08-2015, 05:45   #345
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Re: St. Francis 50: "Wayfinder"

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I may have mispoken. These might be LiPO batteries. Because the 80% looks familiar.

I'm also considering taking one of the Yanmars out after a year or so and putting an electric motor on the starboard side, so I have one of each. Two props for maneuvering around the docks, a diesel engine for reliable range, and an electric for added speed whenever the sun is shining. I feel like this is the future. You've got two hulls; why double up on the diesels when most cats run fine on one?
Hey Hugh,

Just a thought for you, something to consider. Electric propulsion is not just for the future, it is here now. I think one of the issues for cruisers is that we are not thinking outside the box. With the amount of solar you are generating, what if you had 1 diesel, and 2 electric outboards such as the Torqeedo Cruise 4.0?

Here's my thinking. The problem with putting in 2 large electrics (like 40 HP) instead of diesels is the power management i.e. replacing the kW that they use when at cruising speed, say 6 knots when there's no/low wind. But if you get smaller electric motors for calm conditions, then they don't have enough grunt in adverse conditions when you need more horsepower. So, have 1 decent sized diesel that you fire up when you need maximum HP at WOT. How many times would that be? Maybe never if your lucky, or a few times when you need to get off a lee shore, or go into a lagoon against the tidal flow etc. But when you need maximum efficiency in using EP when becalmed, then use the 2 Cruise 4's?

In fact, if you get 2 kW from your panels, you would be able to run one Cruise 4 at half throttle with NO battery kW consumed, as long as the sun shone.

What do you think?
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