Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

[admiralslater]

I must admit that I have not tried heaving to on eithe of our cats , but will soon

[patha]

We sailed the south pacific in 2015 / 16 in our Lagoon 450. On a leg from American Samoa to Tonga 2 days out, surprise above forecasted winds hit us with 40 knots on the nose and huge seas breaking onto the boat. After we hove to for a while, we set the 3rd reef, pinched in to 30 deg off the wind, sailed at 2 - 3 knots, tacking once, for the next 24 hours and made it in. Much more comfortable on the family when the boat is not slamming. Just my experience. And BTW Cats do Hove to. Did it several times in much better weather waiting to arrive to countries a dawn.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Assuming you have a medium size cat 35-45'. You are sailing say 500mi, say about a 5 day journey. No harbors in between. Forecast is ok, but day 3 calls for 20-25kts and 3-5' seas. You start out, but on day 3, it is a steady 25-30 gusting to 35+, with 7-10' seas, fairly steep chop.

You are on a close reach, say 60 deg off the wind, with great speed, but now pretty much heading into the waves.

Nothing that the boat can't handle, you have 2 reefs into the main and jib furled halfway as well, but hobby horse/pounding into the seas. Just uncomfortable.

You are not pressed on time, if the voyage was 2 days longer it would not be terrible, on the other hand, to run with the waves will definitely add at least 2 more days to recover the time lost in the wrong direction. Falling off to 90 deg off the wind puts the seas on the beam.

Best way to handle this is? (Asking because I have not experienced this, have always been within reach of a harbor).

As already mentioned, reduce sail to slow down your boat. You can also consider changing direction to reduce the pounding effect from waves. Head to deeper water. A few simple choices. A little easier than heaving-to or deploying a parachute sea anchor or storm drogue.

Not sure how Blue2Cats promotion of the Series Drogue has anything to do with this thread. Blue2Cat also promotes Morgans Cloud who is another promoter of the Series Drogue. Morgans cloud only promotes specific product, while omitting pertinent information from competing product. This is common practice for advertorial publishing.

[Escape Plan]

You absolutely can heave to in a cat; we have done it in our FP Lucia 40. See if you can reduce speed to not pound so much into the waves.

[gcrothers]

Originally Posted by Fi2010

Not sure how Blue2Cats promotion of the Series Drogue has anything to do with this thread. Blue2Cat also promotes Morgans Cloud who is another promoter of the Series Drogue. Morgans cloud only promotes specific product, while omitting pertinent information from competing product. This is common practice for advertorial publishing.

I don't consider the Morgan's Cloud articles which mention the use of JSD by a number of well experienced circumnavigators to be promotion as in an advertisement for monetary gain.

Garry

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Weight reduction helps. We once dumped almost all of the 540 liters of water we had taken in that morning, keeping only 50 liters in the tank. That was on our previous boat, a Mahe 36. Speed went from 4.5 to 6 knots close-hauled. It was in 20-25 knots of wind with steep short waves. But the Mahé is pretty sensitive to overloading.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by gcrothers

I don't consider the Morgan's Cloud articles which mention the use of JSD by a number of well experienced circumnavigators to be promotion as in an advertisement for monetary gain.

Garry

Some advertorials are transparent while others are not. There’s several posts on this forum mentioning JSD failures, not just success stories. It’s always important to mention the pros and cons of devices and processes. Hate to find out there’s a problem during a storm.

[Jimmyhenry]

I am surprised a Cat would take that long to do 500 miles. Just got back in NZ from Fiji 1100 miles. Took us 6 days in modest winds.
The conditions you describe sound like normal offshore conditions. I would just set the boat up on a comfortable angle and continue.

[CatNewBee]

I have never tried that with the main sail only. Will definitely check it out.

But I have hove to with our Lagoon 400S2 in chopy seas and 20..25 knots of wind the classic way, works easily and is comfortably, I am not sure if I would do it in a sea state with high waves.

I have done it that way, just tack, stay the genua (or jib) back, ease the main sheet to depower the main, turn the rudder hard into the wind and lock it.

The wind pushes the bow through the back stayng jib to lee, the rudder pushes back, the main is eased behind the jib, flapping a lttle in lee and can be reefed or even hauled down if necessary.

I will definitely practice this and the other maneuver with the main only in lighter conditions and check it out, what is better, but I consider the heaving to with headsail safer than with the main out, especially if conditions get worse, it is easier to furl the jib gradually to bare pole than reef or drop the main.

I think, if conditions get worse, I would try to motor slowly with the wind and folowing seas, even if it sets me back for miles.

When heaving too becomes dangerous, another option instead of running away, could be to deploy a sea anchor at the bow connected to the bridal from the anchor plus another one to the cleats, and keep the bow to the wind on bare poles, slowly drifting backwards, rudder locked in center position.

But I guess, actively moving may be safer.

[boatman61]

Now this is where we differ.. I heave to with reefed main
mainsheet centred and taut so main is near flattened and with jib/jenny reduced to best size for the job..
This uses the main as the balance point rather than relying solely on the rudder to bring her back head to wind so as a result need less rudder..
But.. stick with what works best for you.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Now this is where we differ.. I heave to with reefed main
mainsheet centred and taut so main is near flattened and with jib/jenny reduced to best size for the job..
This uses the main as the balance point rather than relying solely on the rudder to bring her back head to wind so as a result need less rudder..
But.. stick with what works best for you.

No, no, thank you for the tipp, I am always keen to learn new tricks. I just have not known it better yet, will definitely try this.

[Fi2010]

Fiorentino sea trials demonstrate how multihulls tend to heave-to at a 30% angle off the wind. This is different to a monohull’s average 45% angle off the wind. If using a trimmed main sail for balance you might need to use a boom preventer line. The main sail is slightly to windward. Looks sort of like a backed jib. boatman61's sail balance is really good also.

In reference to the rudder, you might have to place it slightly to windward. As already stated, there’s more than one layout that can work. Just need to practice and see what works best for you.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Assuming you have a medium size cat 35-45'. You are sailing say 500mi, say about a 5 day journey. No harbors in between. Forecast is ok, but day 3 calls for 20-25kts and 3-5' seas. You start out, but on day 3, it is a steady 25-30 gusting to 35+, with 7-10' seas, fairly steep chop.

You are on a close reach, say 60 deg off the wind, with great speed, but now pretty much heading into the waves.

Nothing that the boat can't handle, you have 2 reefs into the main and jib furled halfway as well, but hobby horse/pounding into the seas. Just uncomfortable.

You are not pressed on time, if the voyage was 2 days longer it would not be terrible, on the other hand, to run with the waves will definitely add at least 2 more days to recover the time lost in the wrong direction. Falling off to 90 deg off the wind puts the seas on the beam.

Best way to handle this is? (Asking because I have not experienced this, have always been within reach of a harbor).

Assuming your doing 6kn

If your 60° to the apparent wind and 90° to the swell, falling off to 90° apparent won't bring the swell on your beam and should be comfortable. Just fall off enough to be comfortable and tack to the swell (term ?) if your tight for room.

Agree with above, this doesn't seem like a time to concern yourself with storm tactics, make it more comfortable and keep going. It doesn't sound too bad.

Day 6 might be 50kn, if you don't have somwhere to shelter keep going until its not safe to or arrive at destination.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

I am surprised a Cat would take that long to do 500 miles. Just got back in NZ from Fiji 1100 miles. Took us 6 days in modest winds.
The conditions you describe sound like normal offshore conditions. I would just set the boat up on a comfortable angle and continue.

You're right, it shouldn't take that long.

[capnkev]

Originally Posted by patha

We sailed the south pacific in 2015 / 16 in our Lagoon 450. On a leg from American Samoa to Tonga 2 days out, surprise above forecasted winds hit us with 40 knots on the nose and huge seas breaking onto the boat. After we hove to for a while, we set the 3rd reef, pinched in to 30 deg off the wind, sailed at 2 - 3 knots, tacking once, for the next 24 hours and made it in. Much more comfortable on the family when the boat is not slamming. Just my experience. And BTW Cats do Hove to. Did it several times in much better weather waiting to arrive to countries a dawn.

I’ll have to talk to you about this before you leave tomorrow. I’d love to know more about how to heave to in the Lagoon 450, vs fore reaching. I’d also like to discuss how you rigged, or planned to rig, the drogue.