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Old 31-12-2018, 22:33   #31
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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On a well designed cat that sails well,

SNIP
To quote Voltaire 'If you would speak with me first define your terms'. I am not sure what a well designed cat means to me or anyone else.

I have spent a good deal of time training myself and my Seawind 1000 to heave to. Also been on other cats when they did the same thing or got caught in irons. Not to mention reading lots on the topics of heaving to and heavy weather topics.

The thing is not only are cats so different you can't really generalize about what they will do but probably more important the combination of sea state and wind force and direction vary even more than cats do. One thing I can say about my cat, and a lot of other cats I have been on, is frequently falling off 10, 15, or 20 degrees often makes a huge difference in how comfortable and safe I feel.

Maybe more to the point when I read someone say I was sailing to the Falklands it would seem obvious they have some real time at the helm of their boat and some of it in very bad weather. Which brings up the topic of weather. Again unless you are way off the beaten track you should have some idea what the weather is doing and which way to go to get away from the worst of it. Maybe that means heaving to for a few hours till a strong front passes, or maybe it means running away from an approaching hurricane.

Bottom line it there are way too many variables to answer the question 'what to do in heavy weather'.
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Old 01-01-2019, 00:59   #32
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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The website shows it tacked down at the same place a jib would be, but I installed a pad eye about a foot behind the roller furling and it worked better.
Paul, could you explain this a bit, please? the Gale Sail that I am familiar with has webbing "hanks" that go around a furled head sail. So, how can you tack it way aft of t he furled sail? Seems that this ain't possible! I must be missing something!

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Old 01-01-2019, 04:08   #33
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pirate Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Interesting. I'll have to try it sometime. My constant fear is always going into irons and the boat being shoved backwards. With the helm hard over it wouldn't go over well with most rudders. Also, what happens if due to a series of waves you actually tack?
Never lock helm hard over when hove to.. on any boat.
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Old 01-01-2019, 04:27   #34
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Never lock helm hard over when hove to.. on any boat.
The "traditional" method is to lock/lash the helm over...so why not?
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Old 01-01-2019, 04:50   #35
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pirate Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

Yes one locks/lashes the helm so as to keep the bow pushing into the wind upto 30 odd degrees before falling off till the main starts pushing the bow back up..
However hard over achieves nothing as it offers to much resistance and your likely to find yourself beam on more often than at an angle to the sea's.
Basically it just stalls the boat.
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Old 01-01-2019, 05:35   #36
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

Re heaving to:

I think whether a boat heaves to well, whether cat or mono, is heavily depedent on its underwater profile. Example, I own two very different boats: a Hobie 33 (go fast mono, deep narrow fin keel), a Wildcat 35 (cruising cat, mini keels which are quite long fore and aft relative to many other cats). The Hobie 33 was not designed to sit still, it is tempermental to get it to heave to (...or not sail at anchor, or even track for a moment without helm input). The W35 by contrast heaves to well and tracks like a train. The difference I think is simply the different keel configurations.

As a charter captain/sailing instructor, Ive taught heaving to for a few decades now across a wide range of monos & cats. Many makes and models of cats heave to just fine using the "traditional" method (reduced head sail backed, main slacked, helm over). As has been pointed out here, every boat is different and you must learn that specific boat, but Ive hove to successfully on many different production cats with relative ease: mostly various Leopards and Lagoons, as those are the bulk of the charter fleet. Fin keeled monos, like the H33, are one of the most difficult to heave to.

Ive also raced on Corsair trimarans. I have gotten one to heave to using the traditional method in moderate conditions, but it took a bit of fiddling...they are easier to heave to under main alone (I suspect this is really more like very slow fore-reaching, but have never checked closely to confirm).

Re terminology. I think the definition of related terminology is quite clear (heaving to, forereaching, lying ahull...), but is used very inconsistently by sailors...often due to lack of understanding of what these terms really mean...commonly due to lack of hands on experience with these techniques. It is surprising how many experienced sailors do not know how to heave to. As an Instructor Evaluator, I find it is one of the most common skills that instructor candidates, who are otherwise experienced sailors, lack.
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Old 01-01-2019, 05:38   #37
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Yes one locks/lashes the helm so as to keep the bow pushing into the wind upto 30 odd degrees before falling off till the main starts pushing the bow back up..
However hard over achieves nothing as it offers to much resistance and your likely to find yourself beam on more often than at an angle to the sea's.
Basically it just stalls the boat.
Ah, so you mean just dont lock/lash hard over, but at the most effective angle?

If so, I agree with that.
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:17   #38
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pirate Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Old 01-01-2019, 10:59   #39
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Interesting article. It's really hard for me to imagine a cat hove to with zero head sail. Personally, I'm not that impressed with his article and would guess that he was mostly guessing about how to do this than actually writing from a vast experience base with catamarans.

I don't know how much other people watch YouTube videos but I do - a lot. Almost everything I've every wanted to know can be researched by watching them. If you search for catamaran hove heave to there really aren't any showing the classic maneuver. There are about 50 for monohulls, zero for catamarans. I wonder why?

Except this one - bizarre.


and of course there's Nigel and his opinions:
The first video, titled "heave to" for reasons I dont comprehend, shows nothing more than a poorly executed tack.

The second video, though much better produced, also has very little to do with its title subject "catamaran sailing in storms and heavy weather". Motorsail upwind is his only related recommendation...really? Thats all you got?

Both pretty useless.

Hmmm...maybe an empty niche for a few well done YouTube videos.
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Old 01-01-2019, 14:55   #40
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Hmmm...maybe an empty niche for a few well done YouTube videos.
Definitely. The mass of You Tubers doing the "Oh, look at me in my bikini in semi-exotic places learning how not to do something" niche is full. Recently I watched Patrick Childress's channel and found it to be one of the best "how to's" out there.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC7...oFn5eMyfTnaA8w
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Old 01-01-2019, 15:03   #41
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Traveller right down. Sheet on,
What does traveller right down and sheet on mean? Do you mean traveller to windward and main sheeted tight?
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Old 01-01-2019, 15:19   #42
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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What does traveller right down and sheet on mean? Do you mean traveller to windward and main sheeted tight?
No, traveller down means to leeward. Then, when you perform the tack the traveller will be as far as possible to windward.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:05   #43
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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On a well designed cat that sails well, particularly with a roachy main heaving to without the headsail is the way to do it. Sail along on a reach, Furl headsail, Traveller right down. Sheet on, tack.
I'm curious. If you have no headsail out, why tack? Why not simply bring the traveler to windward and sheet in the main?
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:43   #44
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
The first video, titled "heave to" for reasons I dont comprehend, shows nothing more than a poorly executed tack.

The second video, though much better produced, also has very little to do with its title subject "catamaran sailing in storms and heavy weather". Motorsail upwind is his only related recommendation...really? Thats all you got?

Both pretty useless.

Hmmm...maybe an empty niche for a few well done YouTube videos.
I agree about the first video. As for the second I suspect that it is designed for charterers who are not familiar with large cats . The manoeuvers he describes would be a good way of getting yourself out of a pickle .
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:51   #45
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Re: Sailing techniques in "uncomfortable" weather?

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I agree about the first video. As for the second I suspect that it is designed for charterers who are not familiar with large cats . The manoeuvers he describes would be a good way of getting yourself out of a pickle .
Probably so, not really properly titled, likely just intended to be simple solutions for inexperienced charterers in what are not really "heay weather" conditions.
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