Problems on survey and acceptance day of vessel with The Moorings

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Afrinus

An Axiom is a fraction of the price of the boat.
What does the rest of the survey look like? (By the way, getting a survey report same day as the survey is really suspect to me - I'm a surveyor)
Accept the vessel if you're ok with the caveat that $x.xx is held back in escrow to address the survey findings.

Thanks! The survey looks good. Just 15 findings and all will be addressed by the Moorings. Repaired, replaced, taken care of.

As mentioned, acctual photos looking very good. The Surveyor, Mr. Vincent Leon, will continue following the progress of the repair and assist me further on..

John

[Rumrace]

Hopefully it’s just getting their hands on one. Electronics have a time lag on them of late.
I imagine there should be an additional charge from the surveyor to return which should be on the broker. I’d put a hold on any funds and notify them in writing their lack of communication has cost you $xxx.
Deduct that amount from the purchase agreement.

[Shrew]

You can always amend the purchase and sale contract to extend the terms, such as closing dates.

You have three options.

1) Counter at a reduced price based on the missing items.

2) Summitted an amended P&S extending the closing terms with or without stipulations that electronics be installed and electronics and AP be re-tested.

3) Walk since the contract terms were not met.

[Jammer]

Best wishes with your purchase.


If delays continue, as others have mentioned, you may be best served by offering to accept a reduction in the purchase price, or cash, in lieu of repairs. Otherwise you are in the unfortunate position of delaying the transaction which may pose its own problems, or which may lead to it falling through.

[SailFastTri]

@piscis glad to hear you’re feeling better about this. Good luck and congrats on the new boat.
There’s an L40+ (2015 and newer) owners group on Facebook and a general Leopard Cat owners group. They’re good resources

[comesatime]

Hi Piscis,

Other than the missing equipment, can you share what buying a Mooring/Sunsail cat to be delivered at a future date in a remote location was like? Both are inconveniences which may or may not be worthwhile at a reduced purchase price.

1)Did you visit the boat before making an offer? Is the price negotiable?

2)How hard was it to find an independent surveyor in such a remote location? I would be concerned the Seychelles sailing community is small so unless you flew a surveyor in, which is expensive, the surveyor might not want to not be too hard on Moorings/Sunsail boats

3)Can you keep it in the Seychelles for long? Passages from there are long, so the boat will need to be in top shape for leaving without a lot of local boatyards/chandleries to help fix stuff. Do you plan on going to Europe through the Red Sea?

4)Anything else you care to share, ie is the sales contract under Seychelles law, does the boat need to be reflagged, taxes, getting insurance, does Moorings/Sunsail pay your broker's fee, etc.

Thanks!

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Good morning,

i would need some advice from you guys on how to proceed...

Signed a purchase contract in March on a 2017 Leopard 40 on the Seychelles. End of charter was August, phase out from September on. Because of ongoing works and some delays (reason not known to me), survey was finished only yesterday! Day of acceptance of vessel has been delayed to Friday 28th October. That is tomorrow....

I received finished survey report incl. seatrail yesterday, October 26.

The vessel should have installed an Axiom 9 chart plotter according sales agreement. There was no plotter installed at all.

Because of the missing plotter, the surveyor said the funcionality of most gauges could not be checked and, the functionality of the autopilot could not be checked...

It was said that all phase out works and repairs have been finished last friday...

I do not understand how they can offer a vessel for a survey/seatrail without the chart plotter, needed to check some of the installed equipment. Well, cannot change that now.

But how would you guys proceed now? Accept the vessel and hoping they will install a functional chart plotter and hoping all system will be working that could not been checked?

Try to extend "Day of acceptance of vessel" to give Surveyor the chance to do another check of the missing equipment?

I am a little bit confused on how to proceed now.

I mentioned all the findings to the broker, waiting to get repsonse ...

Thanks!

John

Hey
I just had the same system installed the auto pilot should work independently from the plotter , how ever if the auto pilot has not been set up properly your chart plotter will be all over the place since it relies on the compass of the auto pilot

[MarkSF]

My instruments are on an NMEA2000 network, and work without the chartplotter switched on. Also, the chartplotter works without the other instruments on....

I like this degree of redundancy.

Admittedly, a lot of the info displayed on the multi-function displays comes from the chartplotter (SOG, COG) - but the MFD still displays depth without it, and speed from the paddle.

The "instrument" breaker powers up a 5-gang fuse block, and each instrument is individually fused, so one faulty instrument shouldn't take them all out.

If I did more long distance cruising I would add an electronic heading instrument.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Thanks a lot!

I talked today with the Moorings sales broker and all seems good. He promised the surveyors findings will be taken care of according the surveyors recommendations. We agreed on an addendum of the purchase contract in which all the findings are mentioned and the agreed repair procedure.

The surveyor has been at the vessel multiple times. On the hard and in the water. First inspection was first week of September. Last date of survey was last Friday. Seatrail last Monday. That explains the date the survey was written down and given to me...

I received about 200 high resolution photos from the vessel with the survey. Some small issues... most of the vessel seems to be in very good conditions, compared of what i have seen in the past 20 years of chartering boats of that age (and younger).

A missing chartplotter would not be a reason for me to jump out of the deal... However, its just not right to accept it.

Well, all looks good now and all findings seems to be taken care of.

Thanks again for your advice and knowledge.

John

I would hold back payment of the installed value+ for anything that is short. I have always found this the safe route. Otherwise there is little incentive to get it done at all sometimes. It's amazing how poorly the work gets done sometimes if it does get done, and how they ignore doing it.
Bought a 47 ft boat once that the long side 'windows' needed replacement. They agreed in writing and it was part of the contract. A well known new yacht sales business etc. I didnt take delivery of the boat for 2-3 months per the contract. We arrived to take the boat and the windows were never done. I had to wait around for that to happen.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Good morning,

i would need some advice from you guys on how to proceed...

Signed a purchase contract in March on a 2017 Leopard 40 on the Seychelles. End of charter was August, phase out from September on. Because of ongoing works and some delays (reason not known to me), survey was finished only yesterday! Day of acceptance of vessel has been delayed to Friday 28th October. That is tomorrow....

I received finished survey report incl. seatrail yesterday, October 26.

The vessel should have installed an Axiom 9 chart plotter according sales agreement. There was no plotter installed at all.

Because of the missing plotter, the surveyor said the funcionality of most gauges could not be checked and, the functionality of the autopilot could not be checked...

It was said that all phase out works and repairs have been finished last friday...

I do not understand how they can offer a vessel for a survey/seatrail without the chart plotter, needed to check some of the installed equipment. Well, cannot change that now.

But how would you guys proceed now? Accept the vessel and hoping they will install a functional chart plotter and hoping all system will be working that could not been checked?

Try to extend "Day of acceptance of vessel" to give Surveyor the chance to do another check of the missing equipment?

I am a little bit confused on how to proceed now.

I mentioned all the findings to the broker, waiting to get repsonse ...

Thanks!

John

We made the big mistake of accepting our boat based on IOUs of completing repairs. Ours was never chartered, but I assume the same applies. The repairs were all subpar and many systems were not functional. Cost us a lot of money. I would make sure it’s all done properly before accepting the boat!!

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

@piscis glad to hear you’re feeling better about this. Good luck and congrats on the new boat.
There’s an L40+ (2015 and newer) owners group on Facebook and a general Leopard Cat owners group. They’re good resources

Thanks. Yes, i am member of those groups as well...

John

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by comesatime

Hi Piscis,

Other than the missing equipment, can you share what buying a Mooring/Sunsail cat to be delivered at a future date in a remote location was like? Both are inconveniences which may or may not be worthwhile at a reduced purchase price.

1)Did you visit the boat before making an offer? Is the price negotiable?

2)How hard was it to find an independent surveyor in such a remote location? I would be concerned the Seychelles sailing community is small so unless you flew a surveyor in, which is expensive, the surveyor might not want to not be too hard on Moorings/Sunsail boats

3)Can you keep it in the Seychelles for long? Passages from there are long, so the boat will need to be in top shape for leaving without a lot of local boatyards/chandleries to help fix stuff. Do you plan on going to Europe through the Red Sea?

4)Anything else you care to share, ie is the sales contract under Seychelles law, does the boat need to be reflagged, taxes, getting insurance, does Moorings/Sunsail pay your broker's fee, etc.

Thanks!

Hi!

The process started in February 22 and should end with closing date on November 9th.
The vessel was in charter until end of August, phase out works started first week of September.

1, no, i did not visit the vessel before purchase. I had a few sailors there, having a brief look at the boat. Yes, price was negotiable.

2, yes, this is a risk on such a location. There are 3 or 4 Surveyors on the Sechelles. I choose VDL Marine, Mr. Vincent Leon. He is the Rainman watermaker distributor on the Islands and i purchased a Rainman system from him as well. During the process of vessel purchase, purchase of the watermaker and as a service partner for shipping items from Germany to Victoria, he was VERY helpfull and responsive. IMO it was no option to fly in a Surveyor, as of various visits to the vessel, and planned post survey consultant at the vessel... He has visited the vessel various times and is standing by to inspect the repaired findings. Not easy to arrange that with a surveyor from Germany...

3, I have to export the vessel within a given timeframe to keep it a VAT free purchase. We are talking about 30 days... We will take the vessel initially to the Maledives. From there to KBL Marina in Krabi, Thailand.

4, I did not use a buyers broker. So no broker fees here. All talking was done with the "The Moorings" brokerage handling the sales for The Moorings. Insurance was easy. I got two quotes from two different insurance companies. Edward William Insurance (ION) and Panteanius.

I reflagged the vessel to German registration. I opted for the IBS (International Boat Certificate), issued from the ADAC. Easy online process for German residents - took 4 weeks. Ship Station Licence (MMSI, Callsign and EPIRP registration) is as well a fast, easy and cheap process in Germany. This is handled by the "Bundesnetzagentur" (Federal Network Agency) in Hamburg.

The purchasing process with the Moorings went smooth and supportive. Some delays, sure. Some things that could be handled better, sure. But finally no big issues.

If you are interested, i can give a more detailed step by step on our purchase, once i am on the vessel and all is set.

Thanks!

John

[comesatime]

Thanks Picsis/John,

This was very helpful, I will keep in touch. Safe travels!

I have my eye on the 2018+ L40 owner model where they reduced the bulkhead size and created an island berth before they stopped making 40’ models. These should start coming out of charter in the next year or two. Leopard prices have gotten crazy, 5-10 years ago you could get a 38-40’ at $350,000 new sail away, now the lowest price one is a 42’ (which is very nice) at almost 2x that price.

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by comesatime

Thanks Picsis/John,

This was very helpful, I will keep in touch. Safe travels!

I have my eye on the 2018+ L40 owner model where they reduced the bulkhead size and created an island berth before they stopped making 40’ models. These should start coming out of charter in the next year or two. Leopard prices have gotten crazy, 5-10 years ago you could get a 38-40’ at $350,000 new sail away, now the lowest price one is a 42’ (which is very nice) at almost 2x that price.

Prices did go crazy, not only on Leopards.... I am watching the market since a fews years.

I like the island style 2018+ too. But at the time, there was no 2018+ L40 listed. I was more focused on an owners version...very hard to get one! Still thinking how much effort it would be to modify the cave cabin to an island berth LOL

I would recommend you get in touch with the Leopard brokerage and inquire about vessels they have listed on their website, even if they are under "sale pending".
I did the same and was offered a vessel that wasnt even listed on any website. I was able to make an offer, did some negotiations and finally my offer was accepted, almost before the vessel hit the market... LOL

You may contact Gavin Walrond from The moorings brokerage:

gavin.walrond@thlmarine.com

I received very good support from him,

Good luck!

John

[vdlmarine]

Here at VDL Marine Services we are here to help all potential buyers of Yachts from Seychelles. We offer walk Through inspection or Video link inspection of your chosen Yachts. We are also Rainman watermaker distributor for Seychelles. Contact us on info@vdlmarine.com.

Thank you

Vincent Leon
VDL Marine Services