Outside opinions on cats. What would you choose?

[theDangerz]

We'd choose the Bali... but that's probably because we did chose the Bali (though a 4.0) and have been thrilled!

Yes, it's a floating condo, but lets be clear... both of your options are - and the truth is we all spend 90% (at least) of our time sitting in protected bays on the hook. In our experience and based on the feedback from other cruisers on all various makes/models of cats and monos, the Bali simply lives like a much larger boat than it actually is.

When it comes to sailing, the Bali also handles fine (and that's after a couple circles around the Caribbean, 5k+ miles sailed and plenty of rough weather/big wave conditions).

We also spent most of the last 2 years traveling with a Leopard 48:
- I'd say at anchor our (8' shorter) Bali lives and feels equally as comfortable as the much larger Leopard.
- Underway, the Leopard certainly sails faster (they should with 8' more waterline and much larger sails). On our last 350mile crossing they clearly shaved a few hours off our arrival... but if we were in this for the speed we wouldn't be on either of the two options listed here!
- In terms of maintenance/repairs, I'd say we've both had pretty similar issues/problems with similarly aged boats.

Honestly, I think you'll enjoy either.
I believe the Bali is more comfortable but the Leopard has more history/believers, so that might help your eventual resale value.

We plan to continue on to the pacific as covid allows... so I'll keep you posted.

[SV Coronado]

I chartered the Bali 4.3 years ago in the Grenadines and it was a fantastic boat... for a charter. I would not want to sail it offshore. I'm personally not a fan of fly bridge boats for long passages where it's just me and my wife. A lot of people love them and say it's not issue, but we found otherwise (personal preference). The resale value is probably better with the Leopard given it's popularity.

If I want a boat for island hoping with my family and friends, I would consider the Bali. For crossing oceans and reaching far away places, I would go with the Leopard.

[merrydolphin]

I have been concerned with a number of cats with serious bulkhead issues from racking, flexing loosening them. Be sure what ever cat you buy that you research this issue. It’s an expensive and very labor intensive issue.

[Karlt]

I think most Bali critics have never even sailed, let alone, owned one. I own a Bali 4.3 and have a 4.8 being delivered so I can answer your questions about it. I have never been on a Leopard so cannot directly compare.

I do agree that any boat selection, just like buying a car, depends on how you intend to use it. That does not mean a Jeep is better than a Civic, but you would not take the Civic off-road but it gets better gas mileage than the Jeep.

The quality of the Bali construction is very good and as good or better than any other production boat. I like the solid foredeck. No, contrary to some arguments, it does not make it less stable.

I like the flybridge. The 360 visibility is excellent. If you want to spend time offshore just get a dodger and it is fine.

The Bali sails just as well as any other catamaran.

Bali vs. Leopard or Lagoon or any other - asking which one is better is not a fair question. Do you prefer a Ford or a Chevy? You will find people who love one and hate the other. The better question is which one has the features, design and layout you prefer.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Karlt

I think most Bali critics have never even sailed, let alone, owned one. I own a Bali 4.3 and have a 4.8 being delivered so I can answer your questions about it. I have never been on a Leopard so cannot directly compare.



I do agree that any boat selection, just like buying a car, depends on how you intend to use it. That does not mean a Jeep is better than a Civic, but you would not take the Civic off-road but it gets better gas mileage than the Jeep.



The quality of the Bali construction is very good and as good or better than any other production boat. I like the solid foredeck. No, contrary to some arguments, it does not make it less stable.



I like the flybridge. The 360 visibility is excellent. If you want to spend time offshore just get a dodger and it is fine.



The Bali sails just as well as any other catamaran.



Bali vs. Leopard or Lagoon or any other - asking which one is better is not a fair question. Do you prefer a Ford or a Chevy? You will find people who love one and hate the other. The better question is which one has the features, design and layout you prefer.

The Bali does not sail just as well as any other catamaran

[Karlt]

Originally Posted by smj

The Bali does not sail just as well as any other catamaran

I guess I should have been more specific. "Any" is a big word. Sure, there are performance cats that will sail better. It sails as well as any comparable Lagoon or Leopard.

[Morndenkainen]

I appreciate the feedback from everyone, especially the personal experiences with the boats.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Difficult choice.
Being South African, having visited all 15 Catamaran builders in SA. Living aboard my own FP says nothing really.

Comparing yesteryear cats, I would jump for the Leopard anyday.
Other boat manufacturers caught up. Currently, with ghe modern lineups between a Leopard, FP and a Bali would be a very difficult pick for me.
Leopard has the production turnaround to fix issues quickly in subsequent production. That was their virtue and reason for their success as reliable - and having had to be Water boats">Blue Water boats from the get go.

Thus , the year model would influence me, as well as the resale value.
I love the Bali's look, and a trip in one does fill your senses. I love a flybridge - but I take note of other posters' note on sail adjustment in a storm - which is very relevant.

You don't have an easy task ahead, but enjoy the search and decision making.
I think you will be happy with either one of them.

[GBR134]

Originally Posted by jim King

I've owned two Leopards. A 444 and 45 (currently). The forward lounge is a big plus at anchor. It also has all lines easily accessible from the fly bridge.
I've done several 50 mile days and some in high seas with relative ease.
jim

I’ve done numerous 50nm days in a 5o5 - still don’t think it is suitable for round the world attempt.

Frank Dye sailed a 16ft Wayfarer from Norway to Iceland - I stilll don’t think a Wayfarer is an ideal RTW boat

[Lance]

Originally Posted by smj

Your looking at a boat and judging it for its comfort and amenities. I look at a boat and judge it for its performance, ease of handling under sail, motion, build and how hard it is to work on. Nothing wrong with either scenario, just different priorities. Remember, there is life outside the basic production boats, and sometimes a better life.
Ask Boatman what he would do with a $400k budget and he would probably say buy a $50k Wharram and put the rest into a cruising kitty!

Congratulations considering a Catamaran is the first step , however I agree fully with the above you have your priorities a little ascew .
You did say going around therefore the
Sailing Performance is crucial towards the long term comfort and safety of all aboard .
You can find many boats mbe not close to you but they are available .
You need to consider the Bridge Deck Clearance plus the managability of the sailing systems ie not necessarily being reliant on dangerous power winches .
The effective Anchoring set up including its redundancy .
Get the best Superior Holding Anchor Money Can Buy and you will have the cheapest and most reliable insurance policy available .
The Electric Power System and its charging regime are very important to have right .
You need to understand its workings and maintenance .
I have not given names of alternatives but do not discount boats other than charter production models .
If you buy because of resale value (salesman speak) you are already looking for dissapointment .
Good luck I envy your expected fun .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by smj

Ask Boatman what he would do with a $400k budget and he would probably say buy a $50k Wharram and put the rest into a cruising kitty!

Naah.. I'd put $140,000 in a new grp Seascape Tiki 38 and save the rest for the cruising budget..

[Bali43Cat]

Lot's of Moitessiers' on here - wondering how many of these armchair pros have made it out of their lounge chair in the past decade or so.

That said - we've owned a Bali 4.3 for a couple of years. Originally had it in Charter in the BVI's for a whopping 2 months until the SHTF and decided to pull it from the fleet and get lost on it during COVID. We put 4,000 nm in the past 18 months sailing from BVI's to USA to USVI to USA and all points in between. Included some rough blue water work and a lot of coastal stuff upwind on the thorny path.

Through it all the Bali did very well. It's an 8 knot boat like the rest of the condo-maran's and you'll find yourself motoring upwind in a lot of cases. But gentleman don't sail to weather do they? As said before - the weakpoint for serious blue water cruising is the flybridge and high boom location. Main sail access/reefing can be challenging. That said it sails as honest as any other fat cat and you'll get better as you go. We had a Code 0 so light wind days were better with that - an asymmetrical will help downwind for sure. I can confirm that she does surf just like any other cat - 3-4 meter trailing seas will get you the occasional 15 - 18 kts surfs - pretty thrilling stuff when it happens and the seas rumble below you! Not unusual to have 9-10 kt downwind days on end in the right conditions with just a single reef in the main and the tiny jib out. Not a huge fan of Raymarine equipment - but the autopilot in our was as rock solid as any boat I've ever been in.

Whoever mentioned cruising with the garage door shut is not necessarily correct. Yes I believe Bali does recommend that for safety reasons but we spent an entire winter last year with the door shut **maybe** 3 days total. Once you get used to the open air through the salon - closing the door/windows is very hard to do.

Maybe we were lucky but the build quality overall has been absolutely excellent. However they build these without the usual creaking or groaning found in Lagoons is beyond me. VERY few issues outside of the normal boat stuff and the 57 hp Yanmar's have been bullet-proof. Solid fore-deck? We literally have never raised an eyebrow. Take one look at the angles of any Cat - for the bows to bury deep enough to cause true concern - you'll be thinking pitchpole in ANY Catamaran at that point...perhaps you should have stayed on the hook that hurricane day?

As for live-ability - as someone mentioned you'll spend 90% of your time on the hook/ball/dock and nobody sets up the condo concept better than Bali. As far as stuff spilling out of the fridge - a little organization using even some low cut cardboard boxes and non-slip stops 98% of that but I guess it's just easier to complain about it here. Perhaps those folks would rather dig down to the bottom of their chest fridge for that 6 month old bologna package than deal with some organization of a real Samsung. Always entertaining to see the looks of other cruisers/visitors when you pop your glass into the fridge door for ice cubes and chilled water - the envy is real man.

The one issue you'll face is that the fridge does eat up power - but that all depends on your electrical system. The stock gel batteries and small solar will require daily engine/genny runs. With some upgraded lithium and a solar array out back you should be good to go with quite a bit less conventional charging needs..but every modern boat takes considerable power planning as things like water makers and electric toilets and phone and laptop and iPad and drone and goPro charging and everything else will consume your time and diesel if let go unabated.

All in all we REALLY have enjoyed our 4.3...so much so we're moving up to a 4.8 for this season's Caribbean adventures including an entry in the ARC Rally from the factory in France - EGAD a crossing in a Bali!! You mean they don't bring them all over in a transporter??!!

Would I consider a circumnavigation in one? Well perhaps not for some of the challenging reasons cited earlier with the high helm and boom. I certainly have thought about it and, maybe with a few more years experience in the Caribbean we could be persuaded. But for a slow boat to China route - I think many have done just fine with quite a bit less.

[Mook1e]

Thank you bali43cat and thedangerz for your input based on experience. As an admitted arm chair sailor (for now) it's helpful for me to hear about real world liveaboard experience with the Bali line. My wife loves the Balis. Without personal experience, we've depended on other folk's opinions and the majority aren't positive concerning the fly bridge as a cruising couple.
I'll admit, the thought of having to traverse from the forward bulkhead/nav station/galley inside the salon to stern through the garage door (or door within the door) and then back forward to the fly bridge if you need to in a hurry is concerning to me.
It's great to hear from folks who are making it work!

[boatman61]

A Mottessier here..
My experience is with the Bali 4.5, a non flybridge boat which was a great coastal boat but slammed her guts out to windward, more so than any Lagoon I've ever sailed.. that solid foredeck instead of a trampoline is not good.
These were seas maybe 1.5 metres maximum.
That experience enroute to Gib was enough to make the the owner decide to ship her to St Thomas instead.. did not want his brand new boat breaking.
Personally I dislike flybridges on any cats.

[Morndenkainen]

Well, at least I no longer feel like I'm going to have any second thoughts hopping on a jet to the BVI to go buy a boat.

Bali43cat, I appreciate your input, and yes, the interior/fridge is one of the things that was selling me on the Bali. It's got a great interior setup and the extra space on the foredeck is a huge plus too.

Boatman, I appreciate you letting me know about your experience as well. I looked at the wharram 38's, and thought about what it'd be like getting bumped off the back of the boat and watching a rather angry ex-wife sail off into the sunset, and thought better of the idea. While I DO like the thought of only having to spend $140K on a NEW boat, I just don't see that one working out terribly well for me.

Lance, Good thoughts, I've already looked at several of the other brands, FP, Catana, Kelsall, etc. The reason I narrowed it down to the bali/leopard was due to the layouts of the boats, the front lounge areas, helm positions, and airflow through the salon area. Bali with the garage door and opening windows, and the leopard with the front door/rear sliding door. My thought process was that I'd rather have the ability to keep the boat at a comfortable temp with the doors sheltered from a downpour without HAVING to resort to the A/C. It seems to me that both boats have their upsides, and the leopard just lines up with my priorities a little bit better.