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Old 23-09-2014, 06:54   #211
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

When I was a boy a trawler broke up on South Stradbroke Island. For months the foredeck sat proud on the beach much like this Lagoon.

We know nothing of the circumstances, the conditions good or bad or how prolonged, or for how long the trawler was trashed for before it finally broke up.

I guess now that it is safe to conclude it was inadequately built, too light with the wrong laminate schedule. I don't know why I didn't realise this then.

Based on others ideas in this thread as to the perfect cat, I can only guess that we will all now be looking for Catalacs
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Old 23-09-2014, 07:07   #212
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Recognizing that your preference is for a thicker hull...

I am not sure it really is price/cost matter for Lagoon. With the price point of these boats another layer or two of material doesn't price it out of the market, probably.

I am guessing it is more for weight/payload.

Is thicker stronger? Depends what aspect of strength is being discussed. Penetration? Flex/rigidity? Tensile? Torsion?

I don't know what testing Lagoon did on their hull prototypes but perhaps getting a description of their non and destructive testing would be easier than getting their layup schedules...

I presume any manufacturer would do hull testing. Isn't it a liability thing not to?
I dont presume to know if thicker equals stronger....... I just want it stronger..
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Old 23-09-2014, 07:08   #213
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411477529.785024.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	241.1 KB
ID:	88638

I wonder what the laminate schedule was on this boat, obviously not thick enough. I wonder what the forces were to cause this damage, obviously to much. I wonder what type of boat it is as it obviously fell apart because it wasn't well enough built.


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Old 23-09-2014, 07:21   #214
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Attachment 88638

I wonder what the laminate schedule was on this boat, obviously not thick enough. I wonder what the forces were to cause this damage, obviously to much. I wonder what type of boat it is as it obviously fell apart because it wasn't well enough built.


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That's the spirit. Probably had the wrong anchor!
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:01   #215
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post

In front of you is a photo of a damaged hull. REGARDLESS of the causation, we can see the manner in which the hull has been constructed. It has been constructed to a price point.


This is not singling out Lagoon. Lagoon just provided the example.



There's that rationality again! Certainly nobody on this thread ever tried to claim they know what caused this damage, or that the same situation wouldn't end the same for a different boat. It's just a picture which helps to reveal the construction methods involved. But post it, and everyone assumes you are claiming that this damage was caused by a simple beaching or something. Tell the truth, with accompanying photo evidence, and they sure do resent you for it. With all the usual arguing about semantics, twisting of your words, and general childishness. One guy even states he has "all the details", but apparently he is afraid to post it. Nice pursuit of the dissemination of truth, eh? If the construction was anything like the claims in the glossy brochures, why not make as much info public as possible? I'd like to see Youtube vid of the boats being built, laminate schedules, etc etc. Certainly wouldn't cost much to do, and the only reason not to is to bamboozle customers. Certainly there are no great trade secrets involved. It's not rocket science.
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:10   #216
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Indeed the caoability if drying out wit suitable catamaran is of utmost importance. What do we now get in new design catamarans, cats that are so weakly constructed that drying out, pounding a bit when tide cones in, results in serious structural risk.


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Ummm, I think the above would contradict that.
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:13   #217
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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Ummm, I think the above would contradict that.
Donkey.
What sailing vessel do you have?
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:24   #218
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

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I admit I wish I could afford a Lagoon cat, guess am stuck with my old beaten Catalac 10m! Very correct no hull would have been able to withstand a reef beating like this lagoon must have gotten. Still be great to get detailed info on hull construction from all cat builders and links to fair objective reviews so that we can make informed comments, decisions.


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Serious I would love a Lagoon cat and I for one am convinced of cats for cruising.


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Old 23-09-2014, 08:26   #219
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

I have a 39 foot daggerboard cat weighing approx 4000kg.

Last year I anchored off Lady Elliot overnight. The wind moved further into the West than predicted and I spent the night well aware that if the anchor dragged we would be climbing off onto coral watching the boat get splintered. I have no interest in owning a boat that would survive that or clearly what this lagoon went through.

When a lagoon rips a saildrive out because of a dinghy painter, yep ask questions. When criticisms are levelled because poor seamanship resulted in any boat inevitably breaking up after being pounded on a beach...well my opinion is best described by the fact the last time I replied to a thread Bazcatana was in fine form.

The night off Lady Elliot was equally poor seamanship. The wind was only thirty degrees off the forecast. We should never have stayed there. However we were alert and had satisfactory tackle out. Wouldn't want to do it again though. Wanna know what anchor?
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:34   #220
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

To digress. I had asked how vacuum bagging is accomplished within a reasonable cure time? If someone has the answer I would like to know.

I know it is used extensively and touted for production boats, is it a better way or is it only a labor saving method to achieve a price point?
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:48   #221
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Long Cure times. For epoxies, ultra slow hardener.

A long time ago, I spent 6 horrible months making low tech carbon fibre masts in Southhampton. We would laminate for nine hours and then throw a vacuum bag on. Removing the peel ply the next day the resin would be well past gelled but certainly not hardened. Post curing did the rest.

Similar with the polyester products built although I am sketchy with the details. Too long ago!
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:48   #222
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
I have a 39 foot daggerboard cat weighing approx 4000kg.

Last year I anchored off Lady Elliot overnight. The wind moved further into the West than predicted and I spent the night well aware that if the anchor dragged we would be climbing off onto coral watching the boat get splintered. I have no interest in owning a boat that would survive that or clearly what this lagoon went through.

When a lagoon rips a saildrive out because of a dinghy painter, yep ask questions. When criticisms are levelled because poor seamanship resulted in any boat inevitably breaking up after being pounded on a beach...well my opinion is best described by the fact the last time I replied to a thread Bazcatana was in fine form.

The night off Lady Elliot was equally poor seamanship. The wind was only thirty degrees off the forecast. We should never have stayed there. However we were alert and had satisfactory tackle out. Wouldn't want to do it again though. Wanna know what anchor?
Lol no Im not interested in your anchor.
My question was just that. Im always interested in what people sail and you didnt have it on your bio.

My concern is simply that modern manufacture appears to be going as minimal as it can in every aspect of boatbuilding to hit a price break.

Macgregor was extremely successful at this, and sometimes, because he only allowed a set time per task, the quality of some boats appeared to be less than stellar.

I tire of repeating this but I do like Lagoons. The 380 in particular. I love it.

The hull of the damaged boat, would not be acceptable to me even in a monohull. It was fortuitous that this sad event gave chance to view the layup. Im not saying in any way shape or form that its a bad boat. I just want something a touch tougher in the hull.

I have been told that the 380s have a different method of hull construction, but need further confirmation before I can verify that.

Look these vessels go all over the world and do it in great style. Id rather have a hull that I can say "oops!" about when I bang it hard rather than "oh crap!"

Thats all.
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:50   #223
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Out of curiosity I called Island Packet yesterday asking what the laminate schedule was for my boats hull. Their answer was they weren't sure they had it due to the boats age, but they would look for me. This morning I got an email from them, it's below.

Hi Jody,

Thanks for the note. 1 oz mat skin, plus four layers 3408 Triaxial glass.

Hope this helps,
Karsten

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800-828-5678
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Old 23-09-2014, 08:55   #224
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

What is missing of course is the weight of the glass
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Old 23-09-2014, 09:10   #225
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Re: Lagoon Cat smashed in Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey View Post
Long Cure times. For epoxies, ultra slow hardener.

A long time ago, I spent 6 horrible months making low tech carbon fibre masts in Southhampton. We would laminate for nine hours and then throw a vacuum bag on. Removing the peel ply the next day the resin would be well past gelled but certainly not hardened. Post curing did the rest.

Similar with the polyester products built although I am sketchy with the details. Too long ago!
Thanks for the info.. My understanding of polyester has been make it as hot as you can, for the ambient temp., and still be able to squeegee out the excess. Higher the ambient and lower the humidity the better. The heat from the catalytic reaction produces a better bond.

My only epoxy experience is with System Three, mix it two to one only in the amount you can physically us. A good product and less expensive than West System.
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