Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-06-2019, 08:54   #241
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cat in Chile, trawler in Ventura
Boat: 46' custom cat, Roughwater 41 trawler
Posts: 1,784
Images: 2
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by refuge View Post
Personally I would love to own a catamaran and Iíve looked at a few of them. Especially now that weíre getting older and appreciate the extra space. But deep down my mariner instincts tell me to be cautious. I donít need statistics. I know a sound vessel at a glance.

I started racing Opties at 8 years old and moved up through the ranks having sailed many catamarans. You really canít compare catamarans and monoís. They are completely different beasts. I donít take sides as I have a deep love for all boats and everything nautical. Yes I even own a motor boat. Lol.

If i were to buy an airplane it would have to have one of those Ďwhole airplane parachutesí that deploy out of the tail. While statistically planes donít crash that often they still crash. A whole plane chute is a fail safe. I tend to see catamarans the same way. Iíve logged over a million sea miles in my life (yes a million) on every conceivable kind of boat. I trust my instincts and while I might personally (on my own) voyage in a cat, I would never cross an ocean carrying loved ones. Thatís just my personal preference. Iíd rather be in a stout monohull with a full keel. When it blows 70 knots thereís not much you can do with a cat. I personally know of 3 catamarans that have flipped over at anchor in mere storm force winds. Thatís all I need to know and thatís the end of it for me.

But I might charter someone elseís cat for a couple weeks. Just not going to invest my own time into owning something that canít safely heave to in a Category 1. Just my 2 cents. To each their own.
I suspect that if you ever have a chance to sail a cruising cat in a blow, you might change your mind. Most of the folks that I know who have, would not trust their lives, or their family's, to anything else.
__________________

__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 09:21   #242
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 23,881
Images: 2
pirate Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
A Bali sailed at 12 knots? How much current??
Theres very little current between Alicante and Cartagena.. but your free to doubt it.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 09:33   #243
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,523
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
I have done it on occasion, but have pretty much given it up and no long use the main DDW. On a monohull you can usually get the boom close to 90 degrees to the mast which presents a lot of sail area to the wind. On my cat, at least, I can get nowhere near that and the main ends up being extremely over-sheeted. We now just fly the spinnaker DDW, or, in winds over say 20 knots, headsails only, either jib, genny or both.

That's not really any different from what you do on a modern-ish mono with aft-swept spreaders and light-ish D/L.


You want the center of effort to be as far forward as possible to stabilize the boat against broaching in case you get caught up by a wave on the quarter.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 09:41   #244
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Briefly in between
Posts: 8
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Once per catamaran



Quote:
Originally Posted by mabowers View Post
Well that made coffee shoot out my nose, so thanks for that.
I also LOL'd.
__________________
Ritchard Findlay
Toronto, CANADA (and elsewhere)
Ritchard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 13:50   #245
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,914
Images: 69
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

1970s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
That's not really any different from what you do on a modern-ish mono with aft-swept spreaders and light-ish D/L.


You want the center of effort to be as far forward as possible to stabilize the boat against broaching in case you get caught up by a wave on the quarter.
Cat's really don't broach. Broaching is caused by rolling.

We use our main DDW a lot. Pretty much all the time, unless there's so much wind we just don't need either the kite or the main.

I have blocks mounted on the side decks aft of the shrouds and run a preventer line through them to the boom end. I pull the boom down to hold the sail off the shrouds and spreaders.

When sailing with the spinnaker, we'll still usually have the main up, if we're running DDW, I'll have it double reefed, sheeted in tight on the centreline, so it's not interfering with the kite. It's there basically to assist in socking the spinnaker.

Ease the main down and the kite collapses, very easy to sock.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 13:55   #246
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seychelles
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 3,407
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
1970s

Cat's really don't broach. Broaching is caused by rolling.

We use our main DDW a lot. Pretty much all the time, unless there's so much wind we just don't need either the kite or the main.

I have blocks mounted on the side decks aft of the shrouds and run a preventer line through them to the boom end. I pull the boom down to hold the sail off the shrouds and spreaders.

When sailing with the spinnaker, we'll still usually have the main up, if we're running DDW, I'll have it double reefed, sheeted in tight on the centreline, so it's not interfering with the kite. It's there basically to assist in socking the spinnaker.

Ease the main down and the kite collapses, very easy to sock.
Can you reef the main ddw? if not and you are slow at getting a reef in with a building sea and wind how do you reef? Is it a problem turning into sea and wind to furl (if thats what you need to do)? Im assuming you cant get the main out 90 degrees?
daletournier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 14:05   #247
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,914
Images: 69
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Yeah, I always just reef on whatever point of sail I'm on.

It's just a matter of easing the sheet, letting some halyard down, winch the clew reef point down toward the boom, ease halyard, repeat as needed. Takes a little longer than if we were sailing upwind and could completely depower the main, and get the reef in one go, but not much.

If we're down to third reef and want to drop the main altogether, it'll just pull down from there.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 14:08   #248
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seychelles
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 3,407
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Yeah, I always just reef on whatever point of sail I'm on.

It's just a matter of easing the sheet, letting some halyard down, winch the clew reef point down toward the boom, ease halyard, repeat as needed. Takes a little longer than if we were sailing upwind and could completely depower the main, and get the reef in one go, but not much.

If we're down to third reef and want to drop the main altogether, it'll just pull down from there.
In your experience is reefing on any point of sail fairly (ddw) normal on most modern cats?
daletournier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 14:08   #249
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,914
Images: 69
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Where did that "1970's " come from? The mysteries of mobile phones.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 14:15   #250
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,914
Images: 69
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
In your experience is reefing on any point of sail fairly (ddw) normal on most modern cats?
I don't know Dale. Most of the people we sail with have similar style boats, ie easily driven, so the sail loads downwind are pretty light. They all reef on any point of sail too.

Heavier boats might need to turn upwind. The few times I've seen production boats reefing they've turned upwind, but maybe they've never tried reefing downwind.

I think they'd be able to.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2019, 14:22   #251
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seychelles
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 3,407
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Ok thanks. Obviously my boat is very different from a cat and i have a inmast furler. I used to furl ddw but the loads are great and i dont like it,therefore i now let the main right out turn side on and furl ,its very quick.

In recent times ive done this alot and it got me thinking about what you guys do with big powerful mains that dont go out 90į, being beam on in a decent sea and wind with a main thats hard to depower dosent appeal to me.

Any others out there with production cats that can comment on their procedure regarding reefing?
daletournier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2019, 02:47   #252
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Becalmed in the Med
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,020
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Where did that "1970's " come from? The mysteries of mobile phones.


Maybe you wanted to reference 1970s design like my 1977 Prout Snowgoose 35. Narrow beam at 4.67m but with a tiny 11m mast and around 55m2 of total sail area.

I calculated the dynamic stability as something in the region of 34knts, and static at around 56knts.

That might explain why a 37í model flipped at anchor in 80-100knt winds when itís genoa unfurled itself.
mikedefieslife is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 15:50   #253
Registered User
 
Icarus's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Boat: S&S 40
Posts: 142
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Statistically you have about the same chance of flipping a cruising cat as you do sinking a cruising monohull, pick your poison.

Source of this claim? The local bar?
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 15:53   #254
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 4,230
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Source of this claim? The local bar?


Ive answered this question 3 different times in this thread, donít think Iíll answer it again.
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 15:59   #255
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 142
Re: How many cats have flipped ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Source of this claim? The local bar?

Common sense!
__________________

OldMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Large Cat Flipped off Niue bounty hunter Multihull Sailboats 497 01-03-2017 15:33
How many have a retirement fund setup? How many think you need one? WannaBeTraveln Liveaboard's Forum 164 23-11-2008 15:05



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.