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mikereed100 · 15-06-2019, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by refuge

Personally I would love to own a catamaran and I’ve looked at a few of them. Especially now that we’re getting older and appreciate the extra space. But deep down my mariner instincts tell me to be cautious. I don’t need statistics. I know a sound vessel at a glance.

I started racing Opties at 8 years old and moved up through the ranks having sailed many catamarans. You really can’t compare catamarans and mono’s. They are completely different beasts. I don’t take sides as I have a deep love for all boats and everything nautical. Yes I even own a motor boat. Lol.

If i were to buy an airplane it would have to have one of those ‘whole airplane parachutes’ that deploy out of the tail. While statistically planes don’t crash that often they still crash. A whole plane chute is a fail safe. I tend to see catamarans the same way. I’ve logged over a million sea miles in my life (yes a million) on every conceivable kind of boat. I trust my instincts and while I might personally (on my own) voyage in a cat, I would never cross an ocean carrying loved ones. That’s just my personal preference. I’d rather be in a stout monohull with a full keel. When it blows 70 knots there’s not much you can do with a cat. I personally know of 3 catamarans that have flipped over at anchor in mere storm force winds. That’s all I need to know and that’s the end of it for me.

But I might charter someone else’s cat for a couple weeks. Just not going to invest my own time into owning something that can’t safely heave to in a Category 1. Just my 2 cents. To each their own.

I suspect that if you ever have a chance to sail a cruising cat in a blow, you might change your mind. Most of the folks that I know who have, would not trust their lives, or their family's, to anything else.

**boatman61** · 15-06-2019, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by malbert73

A Bali sailed at 12 knots? How much current??

Theres very little current between Alicante and Cartagena.. but your free to doubt it.

**Dockhead** · 15-06-2019, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikereed100

I have done it on occasion, but have pretty much given it up and no long use the main DDW. On a monohull you can usually get the boom close to 90 degrees to the mast which presents a lot of sail area to the wind. On my cat, at least, I can get nowhere near that and the main ends up being extremely over-sheeted. We now just fly the spinnaker DDW, or, in winds over say 20 knots, headsails only, either jib, genny or both.

That's not really any different from what you do on a modern-ish mono with aft-swept spreaders and light-ish D/L.

You want the center of effort to be as far forward as possible to stabilize the boat against broaching in case you get caught up by a wave on the quarter.

Ritchard · 15-06-2019, 09:41

Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Once per catamaran

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabowers

Well that made coffee shoot out my nose, so thanks for that.

I also LOL'd.

44'cruisingcat · 15-06-2019, 13:50

1970s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's not really any different from what you do on a modern-ish mono with aft-swept spreaders and light-ish D/L.

You want the center of effort to be as far forward as possible to stabilize the boat against broaching in case you get caught up by a wave on the quarter.

Cat's really don't broach. Broaching is caused by rolling.

We use our main DDW a lot. Pretty much all the time, unless there's so much wind we just don't need either the kite or the main.

I have blocks mounted on the side decks aft of the shrouds and run a preventer line through them to the boom end. I pull the boom down to hold the sail off the shrouds and spreaders.

When sailing with the spinnaker, we'll still usually have the main up, if we're running DDW, I'll have it double reefed, sheeted in tight on the centreline, so it's not interfering with the kite. It's there basically to assist in socking the spinnaker.

Ease the main down and the kite collapses, very easy to sock.

daletournier · 15-06-2019, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

1970s

Cat's really don't broach. Broaching is caused by rolling.

We use our main DDW a lot. Pretty much all the time, unless there's so much wind we just don't need either the kite or the main.

I have blocks mounted on the side decks aft of the shrouds and run a preventer line through them to the boom end. I pull the boom down to hold the sail off the shrouds and spreaders.

When sailing with the spinnaker, we'll still usually have the main up, if we're running DDW, I'll have it double reefed, sheeted in tight on the centreline, so it's not interfering with the kite. It's there basically to assist in socking the spinnaker.

Ease the main down and the kite collapses, very easy to sock.

Can you reef the main ddw? if not and you are slow at getting a reef in with a building sea and wind how do you reef? Is it a problem turning into sea and wind to furl (if thats what you need to do)? Im assuming you cant get the main out 90 degrees?

44'cruisingcat · 15-06-2019, 14:05

Yeah, I always just reef on whatever point of sail I'm on.

It's just a matter of easing the sheet, letting some halyard down, winch the clew reef point down toward the boom, ease halyard, repeat as needed. Takes a little longer than if we were sailing upwind and could completely depower the main, and get the reef in one go, but not much.

If we're down to third reef and want to drop the main altogether, it'll just pull down from there.

daletournier · 15-06-2019, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Yeah, I always just reef on whatever point of sail I'm on.

It's just a matter of easing the sheet, letting some halyard down, winch the clew reef point down toward the boom, ease halyard, repeat as needed. Takes a little longer than if we were sailing upwind and could completely depower the main, and get the reef in one go, but not much.

If we're down to third reef and want to drop the main altogether, it'll just pull down from there.

In your experience is reefing on any point of sail fairly (ddw) normal on most modern cats?

44'cruisingcat · 15-06-2019, 14:08

Where did that "1970's " come from? The mysteries of mobile phones.

44'cruisingcat · 15-06-2019, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

In your experience is reefing on any point of sail fairly (ddw) normal on most modern cats?

I don't know Dale. Most of the people we sail with have similar style boats, ie easily driven, so the sail loads downwind are pretty light. They all reef on any point of sail too.

Heavier boats might need to turn upwind. The few times I've seen production boats reefing they've turned upwind, but maybe they've never tried reefing downwind.

I think they'd be able to.

daletournier · 15-06-2019, 14:22

Ok thanks. Obviously my boat is very different from a cat and i have a inmast furler. I used to furl ddw but the loads are great and i dont like it,therefore i now let the main right out turn side on and furl ,its very quick.

In recent times ive done this alot and it got me thinking about what you guys do with big powerful mains that dont go out 90°, being beam on in a decent sea and wind with a main thats hard to depower dosent appeal to me.

Any others out there with production cats that can comment on their procedure regarding reefing?

mikedefieslife · 16-06-2019, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Where did that "1970's " come from? The mysteries of mobile phones.

Maybe you wanted to reference 1970s design like my 1977 Prout Snowgoose 35. Narrow beam at 4.67m but with a tiny 11m mast and around 55m2 of total sail area.

I calculated the dynamic stability as something in the region of 34knts, and static at around 56knts.

That might explain why a 37’ model flipped at anchor in 80-100knt winds when it’s genoa unfurled itself.