HH 44 by the Wynss

[Kinkircating]

Bummer, just read on HH's website that due to shipping delays there won't be a new 44 on display there this week. Was really looking forward to checking it out in person and getting a feel for the helm visibility, and overall layout.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by kaz911

I would never buy a boat with an electronics system I could not modify or change without involving a dealer.

Amen.

One of the boats that I deliver is a older race boat that has been "upgraded at great expense" to a Czone system with Mastervolt lithium batteries and a NMEA 2000 bus instrument system. I have had nothing but problems that require dealer intervention.

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Amen.

One of the boats that I deliver is a older race boat that has been "upgraded at great expense" to a Czone system with Mastervolt lithium batteries and a NMEA 2000 bus instrument system. I have had nothing but problems that require dealer intervention.

next time just ask me *G*

CZone is easy - but very flexible. And some dealers are simply not dressed for the job - just like a lot of marine engine mechanics. No difference.

Biggest hurdle is usually to get people to separate their networks if they are medium to large size. CZone on one backbone - N2k on another - and then bridge them. "But the specs says 40 devices" - yes - but your modern chartplotter acts like it is 3 or 5 devices.

And then get them to switch off all the "extra's" - like EVERY SINGLE chartplotter does NOT need to broadcast GPS info at 10+Hz.

I went on a CAT this summer where a dealer completely screwed up SW update post a hardware "upgrade". 3 chart-plotters - all individually connected to Internet... And all broadcasting their individual GPS reception on the N2k network. Then an external high speed precision GPS AND GPS from VHF/AIS. Then a forward scan depth, a normal DST800 (depth speed temperature) - and then a fishfinder depth with temperature as well. Ohh and 2 attitude senders (9 axis - roll/pitch/yaw) - one for autopilot - and one for ?? heave compensation? (This is excluding all the tank senders, battery monitors etc - who usually are not a big issue as they don't refresh data so fast)

After 2 hours of "creating" a new setup - the N2k utilisation was down to 15-25% (which is still high) - but everything worked with no delays - each critical device had 1 backup with a Device Instance set correct. 1 GPS receiver completely excluded as it did not report correct position all the time - it would just jump 50m without warning only to jump back after 10-20 seconds.

All extras turned transmission off. And a laminated instruction sheet with what to do if 2 similar devices fail...

Talk about a crowded N2k network...

N2k simply can't deal with lots of "fast" senders continuously.

For normal usage most won't notice but for CZone you would notice a 3 second delay turning on a light.

And last but not least - Device Instance number is important in a big network.

If you have a big N2k network - get a tool so you can se the traffic and the largest/fastest senders. A PC/USB Actisense, Maretron or other tools are just as important as a jerrycan for fuel.

Like anything - CZone and N2k can be a PITA if setup wrong with items just "plugged in" without thought.

Yes it might work - it is 'almost' designed to just work.

But spend a little time or money - on getting it setup right.

[YesIsail]

Now watch the magic unfold and let’s all witness how so many electronics start failing one after the other.

The cat looks nice indeed, but electronics, salt and humidity do not get along well and we all know that. The less wires and crap the better.

A plotter or better, a computer with OpenCPN, an automatic pilot, depth speed and wind with the least functions as possible is already a compromise, add more and they will eventually start failing one after the other, quite possible somewhere along the way.

But yes, if you can pour money and money into the journey, then failing electronics are nooooo problemo.

[kaz911]

In honesty - I think the biggest problem is - everything looks easy - and then people do not read the manuals or try to understand what is going on.

I have not been on a SINGLE new-ish "production yacht" where at least ONE but usually more items was installed in direct contradiction to the manuals. Most times it works most of the time. But you get funny faults like digital compass showing wrong because it was installed 20 cm from the VHF antenna. Press transmit and it looks like your boat turns starboard - and autopilot then starts a turn to port!

Many French sailing yachts come with navigation lights which are not quite correct for most of the world - even if ordered AND delivered to a non-french dealer and destination.

Electronics have a limited lifetime like everything else. Old electronics like Raymarine C/E series are a hair away from dying due to dried out capacitors or worn down screen to PCB connections. No official parts available - so you are left with "refurb" units of questionable quality.

But a PC with OpenCPN is not without flaws either. Most of the flaws are the same or worse than a made-to-purpose single chartplotter. Harddrives - nope not on a boat unless it is "hardened" like for military use. SSD's - better - but still fails at a rate of about 3% every year. Then you are at mirrored SSD drives (RAID-1) and you are better. But then next usual "downer" is the power supply or the battery on the computer. Some PC's can't function with a dead battery inside? Most PC power supplies die after some years - due to dried out capacitors (most often) or mangled connectors (close 2nd). Again buying "military" hardened hardware usually extends usable lifespan as they use better and more idiot proof connectors - and much higher quality and/or over-specified capacitors.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by kaz911

Many French sailing yachts come with navigation lights which are not quite correct for most of the world - even if ordered AND delivered to a non-french dealer and destination.

What do you mean by that? What is not correct? Aren't the regulations the same everywhere?

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

What do you mean by that? What is not correct? Aren't the regulations the same everywhere?

You will find some french sailing boats (and others) miss either all around white light and sometimes low side lights. (port / starboard) - so in effect only tricolour at mast head.




My quote was from a very experienced surveyor - while surveying a Seascape 27 for me (Now called Beneteau First 27SE). The Seascape was equipped with engine from factory - and everything else for powered night-sailing - apart from the correct lights.

I wont mention any other names, as I do not have paper proof signed by surveyor. But other BIG companies tend to "forget" either one set or both sets. And then leave it to the end-dealer to "fix the issue". Some dealers don't..

[kaz911]

Btw - Some factories think an all around white light + tricolour at masthead is enough. But even for <12m sailing boats - there should be at least 1 m vertical separation from all around white light down to port/starboard lights

This is a good resource: RYA Tabular Light Info

A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery (or a equipped for sailing but not using the sails and being propelled by machinery alone) is classed as a power driving vessel and should display lights for a power driven vessel appropriate to its size. Although permitted for sailing vessels under way under 20m the side and stern lights combined in one lantern at or near the top of the mast (a tri-colour) may not be used when a sailing vessel is under power as the side lights must be positioned below the masthead light.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Be aware that a lot of the 230V enOcean stuff will be using 806Mhz, as that is the European frequency for this kind of stuff. In the US the frequency is 902Mhz, so you are technically in violation of FCC regulations if you crosse the Atlantic.

However there is now also stuff that uses BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) at 2.4Ghz, and that is permitted worldwide. One company that produces those is Scheiber: www.scheiber.com
They are French, and thus unsurprisingly you will already find them on French boats.

This is probably what you are looking for:
https://www.scheiber.com/light-air-switch?lang=en

I don't care about FCC regulations, who controls them and having a german flag means i am allowed to use them also in Caribbean.
Scheiber is extremely expensive modul and 2 switches is 500bucks...really again marine pharmacys
Do you know other which you can buy retail?
I already have power at the location the lights should go but don't want to rip more then half the boat apart to run the wire to the switches and back.
Alternative i just use the Wimos wlan modules and do it via alexa voice control.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by kaz911

You will find some french sailing boats (and others) miss either all around white light and sometimes low side lights. (port / starboard) - so in effect only tricolour at mast head.

That would make them non compliant in France as well. So I wonder whether they were delivered like that ex-factory, or that someone messed around with them.

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

That would make them non compliant in France as well. So I wonder whether they were delivered like that ex-factory, or that someone messed around with them.

nope - according to surveyor - very common.

It is only non-compliant if you sail at night with engine. So I guess some french boats are not designed to sail at night? Or anchor..? (think very big "production boat" company)

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

That would make them non compliant in France as well. So I wonder whether they were delivered like that ex-factory, or that someone messed around with them.

Our 2003 French-built production boat has a tricolour at the mast top, a steaming light half way up the front of the mast and no other navigation lights. Very awkward and not compliant when motoring.

On our works list is adding deck-level navigation lights that we can use when motoring at night. Recently added a stern light, but still figuring out where exactly to put the port and starboard lights. Favoured location is the cabin top. Only issue with that location, that I can’t resolve in the ColRegs, is whether the port/starboard lights can be behind the steaming light?

[JustMurph]

Regarding the hybrid drive, you don't tick that box because it will save you money on fuel (or you're kidding yourself if you think that's the case).

But there are plenty of reasons to go for it. For me, it would be:
- The additional charging source (with regen)
- Very high capacity charging from the diesels when you do need it
- The comfort of no noise/vibration/smells/heat from running engines most of the time
- Not needing to refuel as often
- The additional layer of redundancy
- I love tech! Nothing wrong with that

I don't quite get some of the hate. It's not going to be a proper fast cat, but it isn't intended to be. I think this will strike a really nice middle ground, sailing much much better than the condos, being built many many times better than any of them (with a price premium to match of course) and with the mod cons, equipment and comfort that you won't find in the really fast boats.

Storage looked fine to me.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Regarding the hybrid drive, you don't tick that box because it will save you money on fuel (or you're kidding yourself if you think that's the case).

But there are plenty of reasons to go for it. For me, it would be:
- The additional charging source (with regen)
- Very high capacity charging from the diesels when you do need it
- The comfort of no noise/vibration/smells/heat from running engines most of the time
- Not needing to refuel as often
- The additional layer of redundancy
- I love tech! Nothing wrong with that

I don't quite get some of the hate. It's not going to be a proper fast cat, but it isn't intended to be. I think this will strike a really nice middle ground, sailing much much better than the condos, being built many many times better than any of them (with a price premium to match of course) and with the mod cons, equipment and comfort that you won't find in the really fast boats.

Storage looked fine to me.

Fully agree with that regarding hybrid drive.
Yes for 1.3-1.5Mio for a 44/48 ft boot i request the HH44 to be fast...it has all weight saving on board possible and if that doesn't do it well then nothing will do it then more radical comfort reducing will only do it.

Yes a FP Bahia 46 has 9.5t, the HH44 with more equipment 9.8t so that should really do it.
An outremer 45/48 has 13.8t.

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Regarding the hybrid drive, you don't tick that box because it will save you money on fuel (or you're kidding yourself if you think that's the case).

But there are plenty of reasons to go for it. For me, it would be:
- The additional charging source (with regen)
- Very high capacity charging from the diesels when you do need it
- The comfort of no noise/vibration/smells/heat from running engines most of the time
- Not needing to refuel as often
- The additional layer of redundancy
- I love tech! Nothing wrong with that

I don't quite get some of the hate. It's not going to be a proper fast cat, but it isn't intended to be. I think this will strike a really nice middle ground, sailing much much better than the condos, being built many many times better than any of them (with a price premium to match of course) and with the mod cons, equipment and comfort that you won't find in the really fast boats.

Storage looked fine to me.

If it is a $100K option, that would likely be a deal breaker for me. If it was comparable to adding equivalent generators, then I would be on board.