Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 03-06-2006, 19:24   #61
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
While researching Jordan series drogues, I came across this set of videos. Although some of them are actual conditions, most are lab simulations, but they include both monohulls and multihulls, with drogues and without, in breaking wave conditions.

http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_11.htm

Seeing those, and reading the Coast Guard report, has made me a believer. Mono or multi, I don't care which, I'm going to have a series drogue on board, or I ain't a going.

ID
__________________

__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 01:34   #62
Registered User
 
Jeannius's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Worcester U.K.
Boat: Privilege 435 Now Sold
Posts: 840
Unhappy Jordan Series Drogue

Quote:
WARNING: The Jordan Series drogue should never be deployed from the bow. It will not pull the bow into the wind and will not protect the boat in a storm.
Er... The above text appears on the bottom of the Multihull pricing and order page but not on the monohull page.

So, just exactly what is the point of having one?

I'm speaking here as someone who until 5 minutes ago was completely sold on the idea of series drogue.
__________________

__________________
Mike

http://sailingjeannius.blogspot.com
Jeannius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 09:09   #63
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
From my reading about them, they do not "stop" the boat like a sea anchor, but rather slow the boat, thus lowering shock and maintaining maneuverability. They are intended to be deployed from the stern. Since they are so long and have multiple small cones, the shock on the boat is much less, thus reducing the likelihood of breakage at the attachment points while keeping the drogue low in the water and farther back in the wave train. With multihulls, having the bridle attach to each hull is supposed to signficantly reduce yaw.

At least, that is what I am understanding. As they describe it -- http://seriesdrogue.com/vs/ since the stern has more bouyancy than the bow and the drogue allows the boat to speed up as the wave comes, this allows the boat to ride the top of the wave much easier and with less stress to the structure than if the boat were stopped, as with a sea anchor.

I'd love to hear from people who have actually been in this sort of weather and their experiences with the different methods.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 10:39   #64
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
If you deploy a series drogue from the bow, the movement of the boat through the water will be very dependent of rudder position right up to the moment that the rudder is snapped off!

However deployed from the stern , the rudder operates in sympathy with the drogue and the slow movement through the water means that the forces acting on the baot are much smaller than that experienced by use of the parachute.

Just one slight problem!, the boat is likely to be pooped, and thus the stern /cockpit/door needs to be strong enough to withstand the forces.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:44   #65
Registered User
 
Jeannius's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Worcester U.K.
Boat: Privilege 435 Now Sold
Posts: 840
It's the danger of getting pooped and the saloon doors getting destoyed that worried me. If you read Richard Woods recent account of trying to ride out a storm http://www.multihullcentre.co.uk/mhcnews.htm , it was when he went stern to that the trouble really started. I had presumed that a series drogue off the bow would pretty much keep us head to wind while actually travelling slowly astern.

btw Could anyone else see the video on the jordan site properly? I couldn't see any of them properly so was just wondering if it is my pc that's at fault?
__________________
Mike

http://sailingjeannius.blogspot.com
Jeannius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 12:22   #66
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
The videos on the site are not very good quality, but they do work for me. They are standard MPG's, so almost any player should work. If you have Windows Media Player or Quicktime, try opening the player and then copy and paste the URL.

In terms of pooping and other concerns about being stern to, here are some stories of actual users in the weather. http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_2.htm

Both monos and multis -- they don't seem to be reporting such problems. I would think that at least some of this risk involves the design and structure of the doors.

According to Richard's account, he didn't use a series drogue. He first used a para-anchor off the bow and shredded it. He then tried trailing anchors and the remains of the para-anchor off the stern, but this wasn't enough. I don't mean this as a criticism of Woods, just a statement of fact: he was in a notoriously nasty place, but apparently made the decision to go for it, even knowing that a storm was brewing. He thought he could beat it out. The other fact that I think is also worth keeping in mind: although the linked account doesn't say so, Eclipse was later found. Although it had been stripped, it was floating and looked like the hulls were sound.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 03:55   #67
Registered User
 
Michaele's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ronda Spain
Boat: Westerly Ocean 43
Posts: 39
I would be very concerned about deploying any kind of sea anchor off the stern of a Cat... The risk of pooping - big waves filling the cockpit and by implication the cabin once the door breaks are frigtening. I got pooped once in a 40ft steel monohull running out of the straights of Gibraltar and the amount of water that came on board with one huge wave was ' frightening' That was into a small cockpit which empties itself real fast...

I carried (and did not sell with my last monohull) a parachute sea anchor - got as far a preparing to deploy it several times but in the end things moderated. I did however meet two seperate american couples who had the same item and had used it in atlantic storms and both said holding the bows to the waves and wind worked brilliantly and turned a turmoltus event into a reasonably calm one... Like a windy anchorage..

Michael
__________________
Michaele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-05-2009, 12:24   #68
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Virginia to Fla.
Boat: Bristol 35.5
Posts: 1
Would you feel safe circumnavigating in your Bristol 35.5 ?
I heard they were not good bluewater boats.
Bought one anyway. lol
Bruce
__________________
bruced13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 02:05   #69
Registered User
 
sww914's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Punta De Mita
Boat: Vagabond 39 Hull # 1
Posts: 1,842
It seems clear from the Jordan website in conjunction with comments above that a series drogue doesn't stop the boat, it slows it. If deployed from the bow the boat would still be moving backwards in the water, torqueing the rudder one way or the other. I've backed a tiller controlled sailboat enough to know that the tiller really wants to take off when backing. I can't imagine the loads that would be placed on a rudder going backwards in heavy seas on a big boat.
__________________

__________________
sww914 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long-Distance WiFi Device jcmoon Marine Electronics 1344 31-05-2015 06:50
Long distance communication MDhillon Navigation 2 10-03-2009 17:39
Long distance transport? dory36 Dollars & Cents 5 25-01-2007 13:35
buying and owning boats long distance capt lar Monohull Sailboats 10 29-03-2005 08:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.